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Thread: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

  1. #1

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    How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Was thinking about some of the more esoteric panoramic formats and how common they are in use today. I would be particularly interested in how many cameras are being used in sizes other than 4x5, 5x7 , and 8x10.

    My 8x20 gets fairly regular use these days, but I am not sure how many others are in Australia let alone anywhere else. I know there are a number of 8x20 shooters around but it would be interesting to know how popular the 8x20 size is compared to say the 7x17 and 5x12 formats.

    I am interested specifically in panoramic formats larger than 4x10.

    Any ideas/guesses/suggestions about how I can find out.

    thanks

  2. #2

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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Talk to Kodak and Ilford about film sales, if they'll talk to you. Who's done the group-buying efforts? I wasn't invoilved, so wouldn't know.

    The guys who make holders may have some clue.

    APUG.org has a ULF forum, which may hold some hints.

    Richard Ritter does OK selling his ULFs, but I don't know his actual volume.

    Sorry that these are all pointers rather than real information.

    Why?
    Bruce Barlow
    author of "Finely Focused" and "Exercises in Photographic Composition"
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  3. #3

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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    This is all heresay, but.....back in '05 when I was purchasing a Ritter 7x17, I inquired about purchasing some 7x17 holders from AWB. I didn't want to wait a year to receive them, so inquired if there were any available for immediate purchase. I learned that AWB had made something like 50 7x17 holders for a single user in the middle east.

    My only concern going forward is the availability of film. My freezer has at least a 5 year supply and perhaps as much as a 10 year supply, but I know I'll want/need more before I turn up my toes. Film availability was also my concern when purchasing a camera, and the limited research I could do led me to believe that 7x17 was more popular than 8x20.

  4. #4

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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Bruce, in terms of why, it was just one of those thoughts I have from time to time. I have no concern regarding film or holders or the like, it was more a case of wondering how popular the sizes are.

    I guess it was a case of wanting to find out. My 820 is a Chamonix with the serial number of 39, and when I saw that again today I wondered how many there were around that are being used.

  5. #5

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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Griffiths View Post
    Was thinking about some of the more esoteric panoramic formats and how common they are in use today. I would be particularly interested in how many cameras are being used in sizes other than 4x5, 5x7 , and 8x10.

    My 8x20 gets fairly regular use these days, but I am not sure how many others are in Australia let alone anywhere else. I know there are a number of 8x20 shooters around but it would be interesting to know how popular the 8x20 size is compared to say the 7x17 and 5x12 formats.

    I am interested specifically in panoramic formats larger than 4x10.

    Any ideas/guesses/suggestions about how I can find out.

    thanks

    Based on sales of S&S film holders over the past decade or so I would estimate that 11X14" is the most popular ULF format, followed (in order of perceived popularity) by 7X17", 12X20", 8X20", 14X17", and 20X24".

    I agree with an earlier assessment that going forward the most pressing issue for ULF work is the ability to purchase at a reasonable cost film for these large cameras. It seems to me that it would be in the interest of ULF camera makers to purchase ULF film in sizes of cameras they make and to make it available to users with a modest mark up. Most individuals will balk when faced with the complications of trying to place an individual order for film as the minimum order to likely to be far more than they are willing to risk.

    Quite frankly both Ilford and Kodak have pretty much priced themselves out of the market for many potential film buyers what with prices of $30 and more for a single sheet of 20X24" film. Just a few years ago it was possible to buy FP4 in this size from Photo Warehouse for just a bit more than $5 a sheet, which was cut from over-stocked rolls of Ilford film. In an effort to maximize their own profit Ilford put a stop to that source, which has resulted in a rather dramatic increase in the cost of ULF film. Course, there will always be some buyers who are willing to put any amount of money down for good quality ULF film, but ultimately the high cost of film will limit the sale of cameras and film holders.

    Sandy King
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
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  6. #6
    funkadelic
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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Craig,
    Depending on your film needs, some of these sizes are also available in X-ray film, which is much less expensive. It's a different film though. If it works for you, great! If not, then you'll be into photographic film for more $$$.
    Does the Chamonix back come off the camera? If it does, you could possibly get a 7x17 back and holders for it, to get some (long term) cheaper use out of it.
    Chris

  7. #7

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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Film is not the issue for me. At then moment I have plenty and dont foresee it being a problem provided I plan for it in advance. And if film is not available then I might look at calotypes etc. There are always options that can be explored.

    It was more a question of how many are around.

    Sandy,
    Thanks for the info regarding the popularity of various sizes. That was the info I was looking for.

  8. #8

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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    [QUOTE=sanking; It seems to me that it would be in the interest of ULF camera makers to purchase ULF film in sizes of cameras they make and to make it available to users with a modest mark up. Most individuals will balk when faced with the complications of trying to place an individual order for film as the minimum order to likely to be far more than they are willing to risk.
    Sandy King[/QUOTE]

    I think the problem with this is that many of the builders are individuals with the same budget problems the shooters have. Ritter, Canham, recently retired Phillips.

    I shot 250 sheets of Ilford 7x17 last year but could only afford to buy 125 sheets this year. I will happily rent freezer space to any 7x17 shooters, especially those with bad credit who shoot Ilford and think they might default on the terms of rental.

    John

  9. #9
    -Rob bigcameraworkshops.com Robert Skeoch's Avatar
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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    I think you would be shocked at how low the numbers are. There might be a fair number who own the cameras but don't actually take many pictures with them. And the numbers get confusing because one or two photographers in a single format who shoot a lot... or buy a bunch of holders.... will make a real difference.

    I was part of the Ilford ULF sale this past year. I sold 21 boxes of 8x20 film last year. Not bad, but there were only three customers. One photographer bought most of the film for a single project.

    Next year he might need a refill, but when the project is done, he might not.

    For a long time 7x17 was the top seller but that has dropped right off... again because a couple photographers switched formats and they were heavy users.

    Right now 4x10 is popular.... although I would say that whole plate was the most popular of the "off" sizes, and I say that with all respect because most people with "off" sizes are nervous about getting the products they love down the road... it takes a real love of the format to carry on.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    -Rob

  10. #10
    Richard K. Richard K.'s Avatar
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    Re: How popular are the ULF panoramic formats

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Skeoch View Post

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    -Rob
    Rob, you charged me way more than 2 cents!!

    Should I take my WP or 7x11 to Death Valley in Feb.? Or both?
    When I was 16 I thought my father the stupidest man in the world; when I reached 21, I was astounded by how much he had learned in just 5 years!

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