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Thread: wet mounting fluid alternatives

  1. #1

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    wet mounting fluid alternatives

    I cannot get Kami nor Lumina mounting fluid. I wan t to scan 8x10 HP5+ in an Epson V750. What alternatives are there to try wet mounting negs? Hopefully something tht is easy to clean from the negativa and that it doesn't damage it in any way. Thanks.
    Sergio

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  2. #2
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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    Get a piece of anti-Newton glass from Focal point, in Fla. 8.5 in. X 10.5 in., 2mm thickness.

    Make sure that both the AN and the scanner glass are clean. Place the 8x10 negative emulsion side (dull side) down on the scanner glass.

    Then, place the anti-Newton glass over the (shiny) base side of the negative, frosted side of the AN glass down. Make sure that the scanner knows that you are scanning a negative directly on the glass so that it uses the proper focal point.

    No mess to cleanup, costs less that the Aztec wet mounting kit, holds the negative flat, eliminates Newton rings, and works like a charm.

    8x10 scans are coming out nice and sharp using that method on my Epson V750.

  3. #3

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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    Johnson's Baby Oil. Cheap and probably just as good. I went to huge expense and a 4 month wait on Canada Post for some Lumina, only to discover baby oil while it was on the way. If you do some googling and dredge way back you will see some recomendations from respected people in a thread somewhere.

    David

    Quote Originally Posted by sergiob View Post
    I cannot get Kami nor Lumina mounting fluid. I wan t to scan 8x10 HP5+ in an Epson V750. What alternatives are there to try wet mounting negs? Hopefully something tht is easy to clean from the negativa and that it doesn't damage it in any way. Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    I would really stay away from baby oil. It has scents and other components that can stay on and harm film.
    Its made for babies tushes and not film But seriously, i would lean towards other options before baby oil.

    If you cant get Kami or lumina, use mineral oil. Its more pure, cheap and easy to get everywhere.
    MO was used in the scanning industry for well over 20+ years with great success.
    One thing to note, i found that on Kodak E series chrome film the MO can absorb into the emulsion overtime.
    I had used it for a few years when i started out but opted for Kami after testing the new Kodak film.
    Please test on junk film before committing anything real. B&W film and most color neg seem unaffected but didn’t do an exhaustive test of all films.
    Since MO was used for so long without any problems, i would give that a serious try. Its only a few bucks at the drug store.
    Just make sure its unscented and pure mineral oil.

    Last option is lighter fluid, Ronsonol or like. I know many printers who still use it to clean film before enlarging.
    It seems to work well but its not specifically made for film and contains scents and other stuff.
    Just be careful to test it and not burn the house down. After all, it is lighter fluid.
    -Ian Mazursky
    www.ianmazursky.com Travel, Landscape, Portraits and my 12x20 diary
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  5. #5

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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    Water, methanol or Isopropyl alcohol?

    Thats what I have at hand right now.
    Sergio

    My website

  6. #6
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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    Plain water would make the emulsion soft and stick to everything.
    It would be the same as when your film come out of the developing cycle, fragile, prone to dust/scratches and sticky.
    Basically you would ruin the film and the scanner. I heard of one guy who did it years ago at a plant in NJ.
    Lets just say the client wasn’t happy and the drum was ruined after scraping the film off.

    Mineral Oil has been used forever in the scanning business. Its perfectly safe for most films except what i noted above.
    You just need to clean it well after you scan.

    Methanol may or may not work I don’t know. Kami is mostly Solvent Naptha, a little mineral spirits and little N-Hexane.
    I don’t know if you could get Naptha but thats the primary component of Kami SMF.
    You need a products with no water and it has to be non reactive towards film. It also has to have similar light transmission characteristics as the film.
    -Ian Mazursky
    www.ianmazursky.com Travel, Landscape, Portraits and my 12x20 diary
    PrePress Express

  7. #7
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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by sergiob View Post
    Isopropyl alcohol?

    Thats what I have at hand right now.
    I doubt that would work, it has water in it IIRC. You can try it but only on junk film.
    Instead of experimenting on your scanner, just try a piece of glass.
    See of you can remove the film after 20-30 minutes or better an hour. See what happens and then try to clean it.

    On a side note, ive seen film after 15 years from scanning in mineral oil. It was fine, no degradation or change.
    Products like Kami, Lumina…were developed specifically for the way they interact with film.
    Others may work just not as well or can ruin film. Its just a mater of testing and what youre willing to risk.
    -Ian Mazursky
    www.ianmazursky.com Travel, Landscape, Portraits and my 12x20 diary
    PrePress Express

  8. #8

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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    Just a few personal comments to add to Ian's remarks, which are very sound.

    If you can not find a good scanning fluid like Kami or Prazio I would recommend, in this order, the following.

    1. Naptha
    2. Mineral Oil
    3. Baby Oil

    I believe that all three are safe to use on film, but test for yourself. The long term effects are not known, burt I am not certain the long term effects are fully known for fluid mounts like Kami and Prazio either.

    In terms of post scanning clean-up of the film baby oil is by far the most difficult.

    Sandy
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  9. #9

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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    If I may, I would like to add a few comments too...

    I stopped using Baby Oil because it was too difficult to remove from the negative's emulsion, and because the oil was too thin it allowed too many micro bubbles to become entrained between the negative's emulsion and the mounting glass surface, therefore initiating a frustrating rework process within a few of my scanned images.

    I do not have access to Kammi or Prazio for several reasons, so I now purchase a food grade heavy mineral oil at my local pharmacy, which suits my wet scanning process, and because the heavy mineral oil has an excellent viscosity, the oil does not seem to accept or entrain micro air bubbles that readily. The rubber brayer process chases any incremental visible bubbles to the edge of the negative, but there are a few incidents where I am not successful, or as effective as I would like to be with the odd smaller less visible bubbles. Prior to any scanning event, I preclean my negatives with Isopropanol (99%) and I do not use Isopropanol (75%) because there is too much water in the lower value, which will cause the negative's emulsion to swell uncontrollably. I also preclean the negative with PEC-12 film cleaner while using a fresh set of PEC-Pads, before the negative's emulsion is wet mounted to a glass plate. PEC products just happen to be readily available, so I use them...

    After I scan the negative, I preclean the negative with a large Isopropanol (99%) volume, which thoroughly removes and, or cuts the heavy mineral oil from the negative's emulsion quickly. I then complete the negative's cleaning process with PEC-12 film cleaner again, while using a fresh set of PEC-Pads, and I store the negative properly after I inspect the cleaned negative.

    jim k

  10. #10

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    Re: wet mounting fluid alternatives

    I have been using the most readily available form of high percentage Naptha available over the counter. Rosinol lighter fluid. You need to be careful using this fluid from the standpoint of sparking. It is supposedly more volatile than Kami. But the composition is very, very similar. It usually evaporates without leaving any residue, but in the case where it does leave a little on a corner, a little naptha on a PEC pad or a little PEC 12 can resolve the issue. I use an overlayment of Grafix Dura-lar .003 from my local artist supply shop. Its pretty inexpensive and works well. What I will have to break down and get is Kami tape. I haven't found an over the counter tape that will not soften when exposed to the Naptha. I'm working with 4X5 film on a better scanning holder on a 4990.

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