Development time for new Tmax100 film

[Daniel Taylor]

there is a forty page technical publication on the 'New' TMax films and you gotta admit the new box styling is a welcomed change. I sometimes think the processing times come from Kodak's cafeteria and a big dart-board, where they throw a dart and write down where it lands. if I were to develop TMax films using the suggested Xtol times, I would have clear film except for the leader. perhaps they re- threw their darts this time around? Ilford seems to have used a similar scheme with its Delta 3200 times.

[Steve Gangi]

I haven't tried the new TMax yet, but will be interested in what other people in the forum think of it. If the new version has different development times, that is OK as long as we know what they are (at least as a starting point). I would also be interested in what other users settle on as for its "non lab conditions" film speed and how it compares to "old" Tmax. Maybe we could start a big war over it, like the "new Coke" vs "classic Coke" of a few years ago <evil ideas>. Other than that, just what is wrong with 57 Chevys and tube radios? I like them both :P

[Michael Feldman]

Daniel, are you suggesting that when Kodak publishes the old and new development times for TMX and TMY in the same publication (see above), that they are using different methodologies? If Kodak used the same methodology for the old and new film, then your argument makes no sense.

Obviously, the Kodak recommended development times must be modified for our own personal situation, but the fact that TMX recommended times (D76, 1:1) have been reduced 25% and the TMY times have not changed (and the Plus-X times have increased 20%), might tell us something about the whether the TMX emulsion has changed. You have previously gone on record as stating that since you are a lab technician for other photographers, you can figure out the development time changes without much fanfare. Agreed, but some of us are also interested in what changes (good or bad) to the film quality may have occurred as a result of any change in the emulsion.

[Daniel Taylor]

> You have previously gone on record as stating that since you are a lab technician for other photographers

lab technician? I am just a flunky electronics engineer who made enough money in hi-tech to semi-retire at age forty, and fully retire next year at age 52. this affords me the time and money to support my photography studio and pursue photography full-time.

with those less-than-stellar qualifications, and knowing little of ion-migration, laminar-flow emulsion adhesions, and gelatin base chemistry, I can only guess that new materials and application technology could change the processing times without a change in the emulsion chemistry. Kodak says that the TMY processing times are the same because this film changed-over to its new facility in 1995 and published times are current. the Tri-X films are of a different technology and are moving last with published times to appear later in 2002. Kodak states that the fundamental characteristic and spectrum curves have not been changed.

to me, it seems like a good move, insuring future production of our beloved films. ok, my beloved TMax films. of all the films I have tested, I consistently return to TMax films and will be one of the first to holler if the products have been compromised in some fashion to improve profits.

I used to own a '57 Chevy, loved its styling, and owned a guitar- amplifier company of all-tube designs. love my old Rolleicord too. I was just ambling on about changing times and inertia. it happens.

[Michael Feldman]

My apologies to Mr. Taylor for claiming that he was a lab technician for other photographers. I confused him with another person who seemed to promote similar arguments in the ?Film and Processing? list.

Although Mr. Taylor?s suggestion that ?you gotta admit the new box styling is a welcomed change,? may well categorize him as an eternal optimist, it does little to shed light on exactly what effect the new versions of Kodak films will have on photographers (besides the stated change in development times). His other assertions such as ?if I were to develop TMax films using the suggested Xtol times, I would have clear film except for the leader,? seem similarly off-base.

Granted that (for obvious reasons) the development times published by Kodak (or Ilford) cannot be used as gospel by photographers who are interested in precise and consistent development in their own unique environment, the development times should at least be determined (for a given developer) on a consistent basis. No one to my knowledge has provided a satisfactory explanation as to how the development times (in the new factory) for TMX can decrease by 25%, and for Plus-X increase by 20%, without at least one of the emulsions having been changed.

Statements from Kodak like ?the fundamental characteristic and spectrum curves [of the new films] have not been changed? do not reassure me. In fact, the use of the word ?fundamental? in the above quote from Mr. Taylor (attributed to Kodak) suggests to me that ?some? changes in the characteristics and spectrum curves have occurred, although they are deemed by Kodak to not be ?fundamental.?

[Daniel Taylor]

I don't think I am thinking about these issues with the same level of intensity as others. my comment regarding the new packaging is merely to lighten the mood. after developing thousands of rolls of TMax films in Xtol I am surprised as to why I have to deviate so radically from Kodak's published specifications. I am not blaming Kodak but simply bewildered after much experimentation as to why my times are 30% longer. many of us experienced identical puzzlement when we used Ilford's Delta 3200 recommendations, and found them not based in reality. Xtol works wonders for me, but not by Kodak's rules. it is a mystery that I have attributed to some magical qualities in the Oregon water that runs off these mountains that I use.

it will be interesting to follow everyones observations with the new film. I have P3200 and HIE in the new packaging and can't wait when TMX arrives.

[kthompson]

Hmm...maybe I'm the one you were thinking of...first name (never used) daniel...but yeah, I pretty much agree with the other daniel...big deal...unless you want to run out now and stockpile the old films, what can you do?? btw, I never liked the results of my TMX and TMY films in XTOL...but in our deeptank line with RS, I can often run several different emuslions at the exact time & temp and get an acceptable neg...which to a zone system purist may seem impossible, but believe it or not, this is the way most labs run film. Those TMAX films like TMY and TMX can be successfully grouped together often....in fact, if you run b&w control strips, the strip itself is made from TMY stock...in my experience, while it *is* best to tailor each time to your film....on a working basis this isn't often practical in a lab... you can group 'em in batch runs & split the difference on the times...b&w isn't E6....

btw, Kodak sent us a sampler pack with 4 rolls of the new films--no TX though--the other day...I haven't tried any of it yet though, I'm a little ambivalent of the whole thing to tell you the truth as we still have at least a case of TMX in the fridge, I'll deal with the new film when the time comes....maybe you oughta call Kodak for a sample pack.

But none of this answers Jorge question...and I don't have the answer for the new tube times, as the times in the tech sheet that came with the sample pack with mostly for small tank processing & sheets in trays...which we do neither of. When we crack into the newer films-- actually what ticks me off the most over all this are two things...you wanna complain about Kodak, okay this is mine--they got rid of the 100 sheet boxes first off, that's really lousy. They should have made 100 sheets the smallest size available. Then they change these names...now we're going to have to rewrite our contracts again for the second time in almost a year...I can do a good Ilford rant too, ....but it's not a film issue--but--ahhh--when we get the new film, we'll just deal with it then...you know it's hard for me to even figure out what the whole point of this thread is....

Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the policy of my agency.

[Sal Santamaura]

I just took a closer look at F-4016. In addition to changes in developing time, page 15 reveals that the ruler-straight characteristic curve one could previously obtain when processing TMX in T-MAX developer (*not* RS) is no longer available.