Widest lens on the Graflex Super D 3 x 4?

[joshdaskew]

Hi, I am interested in purchasing one of these, mainly for the use of 3.25 x 4.25 Fuji instant film... Was just wondering what the widest lens I can use on this is? I know 150mm or so is the standard but just wondering if it was possible to take wider? I have a 135mm Xenotar I have in mind, as well as a 105mm medium format lens (although this is probably no doubt way too wide). What are the constraints involved with such a camera/lens combination? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Brian Stein]

For the minimum focal length measure the distance between the ground glass and the lens mount with the focus fully racked in. This will be the approximate minimum unless you go to a recessed lens board.

The only specific information I can find is the manual at http://www.butkus.org/chinon/graflex...to_graflex.htm This seems to indicate lenses between 4.5 inches and 8.5 inches were in use . So it looks like a 120 mm or so should work, making the xenotar ok (I think it will just cover 5x4) but not very wide.

[Walter Calahan]

Very difficult to put a wide angle and get its full range of focus on the Graflex regardless of its format due to the mirror. You can put a very wide lens on the camera, but you will not be able to focus to infinity.

I put an Aero-Ektar 178 on a 4x5 Graflex, but can't focus out further than @6 or 7 feet.

[joshdaskew]

Hi, Thanks so much for the reponse! i don't actually have the camera unfortunately so can't do my own measurements.. Would you be able to elaborate on what effect the mirror has on lenses and how this doesn't allow you to focus to infiniity? I mainly plan to use if for portraits but was also looking to put a medium format lens (Pentax 105mm 2.4) on the front... i realise that this possibly won't cover the full frame.. What potential problems would I run into using this? It would be mounted on an extension tube on a standard board... Might it be possible but just not to infinity as you have mentioned?

Ok, thanks so much again. Cheers Josh

[Sevo]

Been there, done that. That is, toyed with using modern medium format retrofocal lenses on intermediate format gear. While I haven't tried on a Graflex, I've tried, unsuccesfully, on my Mentors and Makiflexes - and your 3x4" has a minimum of 14cm swing, 2cm more than these 6.5x9cm cameras.

It can't even be done on 6.5x9. And least of all with Pentax 6x7 lenses, as that has a horizontal mirror with barely more swing than a Hasselblad, and a mere 80mm register - way too short to leave any room for a mirror with at least 12cm swing radius, and even less for the bigger mirror swing on a 3x4.

Even Mamiya RB lenses (with about 110mm register) don't focus beyond a few cm on my rotating back 6x9's, and going by the dimensions, RB wides could not even be retrofit into another barrel to make them fit a Graflex, as their rear element can't clear the mirror at infinity. Only long lenses (with plenty of air between rear element and mount) could be remounted, but there already is no shortage of long lenses for old reflexes.

[leighmarrin]

Josh, the problem with the Graflex mirror is that many lenses will HIT it, or prevent it from its full travel. Your proposed 105mm lens will not need an extension tube, but just the opposite. For it to focus at portrait distances, it will have to go the opposite direction with a recessed lensboard, and will then surely interfere with the mirror.

FWIW, I have an older non-auto Series D 3x4 Graflex from the 1930s, and when I put a 127mm/f4.7 lens on it, its bellows will only allow a focus range of about 12 to 20 inches. The 6 3/8" B&L Tessar that came on mine is a sharp lens, and I'm quite happy with it.

[leighmarrin]

Josh, the problem with the Graflex mirror is that many lenses will HIT it, or prevent it from its full travel. Your proposed 105mm lens will not need an extension tube, but just the opposite. For it to focus at portrait distances, it will have to go the opposite direction with a recessed lensboard, and will then surely interfere with the mirror.

FWIW, I have an older non-auto Series D 3x4 Graflex from the 1930s, and when I put a 127mm/f4.7 lens on it, its bellows will only allow a focus range of about 12 to 20 inches. The 6 3/8" B&L Tessar that came on mine is a sharp lens, and I'm quite happy with it.

[joshdaskew]

Cool, Thanks so much for the responses! So it may just be a matter of sticking these things onto my large format camera and using them that way.. Are there any other options that you guys can think of? There seems to be only rangefinder cameras that seem to accommodate this size...

So I am assuming that for these cameras and their relevant film size, there is no "standard" lens (as in, a 50mm in 35mm terms) and that the lens that comes with both the 3 x 4 version (150mm) and the 5 x 4 version (190mm) are all going to be slightly longer because of the inherent problem with the mirror?

Brian, according to the chart that you have provided, then my 135mm Xenotar should work.. Anyone see any problems associated with this? Would I be able to focus at all distances?

Ok, thanks so much to all of you, it is greatly appreciated! Cheers Josh

[Brian Stein]

There are standard lenses in the same way a 50mm is standard for 35mm: roughly the length of the film diagonal give or take a bit. Although this make both 150 and 190 slightly "long" for their formats, proportionately they are much the same as 50mm is slightly long for 42mm diagonal of 35mm.
The mirror issue as I understand it means that certain designs of lens (retrofocus wide angles) wont cut it because they tend to stick out at back, and that there is a definite shortest lens you can get to focus because of it.
If you are going to have a limitation in focus it is going to be at distance: the closer the subject the more you have to rack the lens out. From the lens chart from the instruction manual the xenotar should work ok, but the experiences of leighmarrin with a pretty close by lens indicate it's very much going to be try and see

[Sevo]

Cool, Thanks so much for the responses! So it may just be a matter of sticking these things onto my large format camera and using them that way..

On large format reflexes you are limited by their rather copious mirror boxes and the lack of large format retrofocals build for that situation. The Xenotar might already be a tight fit, being huge for its focal length.