wet darkroom vs. inkjet

[paulr]

I think my negative-size inkjets generally look better than my contact prints from the same negative, if you're talking purely about smooth tones and sense of detail and texture. I'll show anyone side by side examples if they're skeptical.

As far as the nature of the tonality, and which process best serves a given image ... this is purely subjective. For my work I find I prefer ink anywhere between half and three quarters of the time. Your mileage may vary. If you've honed your skills in the wet darkroom, expect a long learning curve before being able to get good results in ink. And vice versa.

You should ignore anyone who says the wet darkroom gives vastly superior (or inferior) results. The differences are subtle and mostly subjective.

There are other differences to consider. One is the working method you prefer. If photography for you is largely about process, then your love / hate for playing with chemicals in the dark might make the decision for you.

If you're selling your work, then the preferences of your market may be a factor. In most of the contemporary art world, collectors and dealers care very little about your process. But there are corners of the art world that are into traditional craftsmanship (and corners of it that are into avant garde processes that make ink jet seem old fashioned) so you should be aware of this.

[jim kitchen]

Jim, I note you are in Calgary. Who does your drum scans in Canada?

Dear Peter,

My drum scans are done by ABL Imaging in Calgary, http://www.ablimaging.ca/ by a very qualified operator named Rob, and his associate Keith. I believe they use a Howtek 7500, where they are quite reasonable with their file size costs, and they are very good with their customer service.

I do not have every negative scanned with a drum scanner, because my operating costs would be more than I could recover, but when I do need a quality scan with a very difficult shadow detail negative, that failed miserably in an Epson 750, Rob and Keith are my choice for recovery.

jim k

[jim kitchen]

To me, the main issue is longevity: fading and archival permanence. For permanence, it's best to avoid Silver paper in the first place, and go with the so-called "alternative" processes, like Platinum, Palladium, Carbon: those prints will last as long as the paper holds together. Given the current levels of investment, inkjet print longevity will only increase.

Dear Ken,

I must agree with you that there are other processes that deliver greater life expectancy that a silver print and, or a digital inked image...

Unfortunately, I cannot be in a darkroom producing alternative images, because of an issue I stated earlier, so my decision to select someone like Bob Carnie and his excellent process to produce a silver halide image, happens to be my longevity choice. Bob sells himself short in my view, because his workmanship was exceptional. My original silver prints that are greater than thirty years old still looks as if I printed them yesterday. If I could produce alternative images through a trusted third party with my negative's digital file, I would find that avenue a very exciting avenue to explore, and an avenue that would open more possibilities.

jim k

[jim kitchen]

I felt I came short, but with time and more attempts with his files I would have more confidence...

Dear Bob,

I must tell you that you sell yourself short, because your finished work was excellent....

I do realize that my digital files will require an adjustment curve to fit the paper choice we made and the inherent slight mid-tone drift, upon reviewing the Durst prints again, and I am certain that the selenium toning process will affect that curve structure too. The images that I sent you as a reference set had adjustment curves made for that paper stock through the printer's RIP, and I know that when I produce an image on my calibrated monitor, the printed image will look identical without question. I believe that a curve could be made to suit your enlarger, but the cost, and time to produce such a curve might be prohibitive, then again maybe someone already created a correction curve. I will work with you because of your attention to detail, and it happens to be a characteristic that I prefer.

That said, don't sell yourself short. You do great work...

jim k

[Sirius Glass]

I tried scanning and using an ink jet. After printing 10 to 12 prints, I had to buy cartridges again! It new cartridges cost a lot. I started looking for an enlarger right away. The equipment is not that expensive; having the room to set up a darkroom or temporary darkroom can be a problem.

Then when I started making prints, I realized how good it feels to hold a double weight fiber print.

Steve

[paulr]

I tried scanning and using an ink jet. After printing 10 to 12 prints, I had to buy cartridges again!

If you're making more than the occasional print, you either need a printer with big cartridges or a continuous ink system. Otherwise you'll go nuts. At any rate, it will take more than 10 or 12 prints to figure out how to print well. Just like in the darkroom.

[Merg Ross]

Hi to Everyone.

I sure could use some insight and suggestions. I haven’t practiced any serious large format black and white photography for a long time and much has changed since then. So I’m at a crossroad and I'm unsure of what direction to take. I could rebuild a darkroom and continue with traditional prints. A pain to build, but a simple if messy process once done. I never had a big love affair with being in a darkroom but the Illford Galerie FB prints were wonderful and worth all the effort. They have been hanging for 30 years and still look at good as the day I made them. Or I could get a Epson 750 scanner, ( or maybe drum scanned? ) and then print on a Epson 3880 using their inks, at least for now. It’s very temping and a lot easier than building another darkroom. There is no doubt that the computer gives one vastly more control, but in the end it’s the quality of the print that matters. Will the inkjet route produce prints of equal tonal scale and subtle gradation? I think this can be loaded question, but some informed opinions would be apprecated. I live in Oakland, Ca. If anyone knows of some really good inkjets that are hanging around here please let me know. Seeing them might be a helpful. Thanks!

Brent, you live in an area that abounds with excellent examples of ink and silver printing. Visit the many museums or galleries, most of which have displays of both techniques, and decide for yourself. First, can you tell the difference between the two techniques? If you can not see the difference, then you have answered your question.

For some, myself included, there is a visual difference between the two. However, I have friends very successful at marketing their work, who have gone from silver to ink. They have done so for convenience, and without any loss in demand for their work. The key here is that their vision has not been sacrificed and the buying public has little interest in how their prints were made.

So, I would suggest that you take the time to master either silver printing or inkjet. The learning curve is steep in both cases, and I am still trying to master silver printing after over fifty-five years in the darkroom. Inkjet will have to wait. But don't make the mistake of believing that one is superior to the other, they are simply different.

www.mergross.com

[bob carnie]

You should ignore anyone who says the wet darkroom gives vastly superior (or inferior) results. The differences are subtle and mostly subjective.

This statment IMO sums it up exactly as I feel.

Brent, you live in an area that abounds with excellent examples of ink and silver printing. Visit the many museums or galleries, most of which have displays of both techniques, and decide for yourself. First, can you tell the difference between the two techniques? If you can not see the difference, then you have answered your question.

Very good advice.


Why do I like silver printing?

Its all I have studied since leaving the logging camps,
I love the look and feel of a well printed fibre print.
I like the fact that it will last, I have seen my prints on my Grandma's wall that I gave her 1st year in college and they still rock. Ektalure
There is too many wonderful memories of time spent talking , fighting, and making fun of photographers as they go through the pains of putting on a gallery show.
I can still work on historical negatives and match the original intent of the photographer.
There is nothing better than printing during the day , listening to Van Halen, Rush, Rare Earth, Robin Trower, and not having someone tell you to turn down the music.
The beer at the end of the day is wonderful and I get paid to boot.

Much better than setting beads .

[bob carnie]

I still haven't figured out how to highlight others words in my posts , so credit must go to Merg and paulr for the good advice , I posted in the above post.

[Nathan Potter]

Merg, "over 55 yrs. of darkroom experience"! I may have you beaten by a bit but like you I'm still learning. You alluded to vision, which I believe is the more important element in a fine photograph.

Lots of good advice here with some good objectivity. But great photographs are derived from great vision and the method of realizing that on paper is less important as long as fine craftsmanship is employed throughout the process.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.