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Thread: When will sheet film be obsolete?

  1. #11

    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ty G View Post
    Do you think 8x10, etc sheet film will eventually go away forever? Will the LF cameras become door stops?

    It will be available long as people are willing to pay for it. If you buy more, it will be available longer.

    My personal opinion is that film will be available until there is a commercially feasible form of fusion power. The first time I remember someone putting a date on the availability of commercially feasible fusion power they said in 30 years time. Each time, since then, that someone has estimated it, the estimate has remained that we would be able to rely on fusion as a source of power in 30 years time.

    I will not say how many times that deadline has passed, but I no longer look forward to seeing commercially feasible power obtained from nuclear fusion in my lifetime. If you are alive now, I would suggest that you consider the demise of film along the same sort of time horizon.

  2. #12
    Michael E. Gordon
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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    "When will sheet film be obsolete?"

    2164. Let's all get back to work....

  3. #13

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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    Nah sensor development is mature and near the end of rapid development, there is no reasonable market for a 4x5 inch sensor. We don't need more megapixels as it stands, the best we're going to get are incremental improvements in dynamic range and ISO with the small sensor formats we've got.
    While I think there is a market for a 4x5 inch sensor, I don't believe there is a mass market for it. Artists and people who print huge enlargements commercially will want that eventually.

    We have easily available 24 bit / 96 KHz audio technology, yet no one will pay for it. Almost every one I know except for my musician friends and a couple of audiophiles think that 256bps (or less!) mp3/aac whatever is plenty for music. It is simply "good enough" for most people. But yet that high end audio will always be there for a price, I believe, if you want it.

    What I think there is a market for is a way for your camera to automatically produce images that look astounding on LCD screens, without having to sharpen them judiciously, fix the blowouts, etc. That is how people are using their cameras these days. So, back to your point, in the coming generations of digital cameras, people won't care about megapixels once we've all gotten to about 24MP, they will care about all these features that make their images look better on screen at <3000 pixels wide (that would be a 30-inch monitor with 100 pixels per inch... the likely upper limit to what people are willing to buy and park in the houses in the mid-term future I would think.)

  4. #14
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    Well seen, well exposed and well developed sheet film will never be obsolete.

    They might eventually fade away, but that will take awahile!

  5. #15

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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    Photocell and eventually photo sensor technology is evolving. On a parallel track to the ever-smaller more megapixels crammed onto a silicon-based chip, there is something else afoot. Photocells are the first big jump; solar panels are becoming ubiquitous and cheap as the technology migrates to printed-on-anything from encapsulated under glass.

    It's not a huge leap from there to expect a technology jump of something similar to 4x5 and larger sheet film. Relatively crude but cheap and effective sensors. View cameras themselves could become hot items if and when that happens.

    Imagine something in the way of a sensor nearly identical to the present day form factor of sheet film, say in a sheet film or Grafmatic style holder that costs under $100 and is near-endlessly reusable. (Preferably one that shuffles between the sensor and 6 sheets of silver-halide film. As long as we're prognosticating, that'd be my pipe dream).

  6. #16

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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    A few things brought up that did not cross my mind, thanks all for your thoughts. I ask not to stir up a hornet's nest; no secret, I build cameras for wet plate and dags, but for the last couple years I have thought about diving into the field film camera world. Last year, I think, I was asking about film registration, and through that found S & S holders. I was thinking that I could come up with a very nice 8x10 format based around those holders. Why S&S? I like the look and the guys there seem nice and dependable. Right now, I have a Wisner 8x10 that I am doing a little work on and I keep looking at the brass work and movements and telling myself, "I can do that."

    But, what I was thinking is that knowing my luck, by the time I got it going, no one would be using them, and guys would be getting rid of them at garage sells for 50 cents. I know, that an extreme analogy, but just thoughts rambling in my head.

  7. #17
    Richard K. Richard K.'s Avatar
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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    I'm pretty sure that you could finish several before nobody wants them anymore AND find film for them...
    When I was 16 I thought my father the stupidest man in the world; when I reached 21, I was astounded by how much he had learned in just 5 years!

    -appropriated from Mark Twain

  8. #18

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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
    ...snip.... Bill Maxwell told me recently (in an hour long phone call) that he is getting more orders for 8x10 screens this year than the last ten years combined. I am not worried.
    That is an amazing quote. To my mind, it bears looking a little harder at why the LF trend is expanding.

  9. #19
    In the desert...
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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    about the time water color and oil paints and stretched canvas.

    I think digital as we know it now will be obsolete-replaced by new technology-more efficient means of capturing, storing and reproducing information are evolving. You techies are aware of that. Those in the art world who chose to use film as a medium, or wet/dry plate etc., are more secure in their medium than one might imagine....only a few years ago you had to look long and hard to find anyone who could even pour a plate. Non commercial emulsions and processes are routinely being created by artists. It has been rumored that some very poorly processed plate photos used in documentary projects have brought thousands per image. who da thunk it. Only if the art world rejects the medium will it become extinct. Pounding 3 D images out of a rock and creating images with egg whites and colored earth are alive and well.

  10. #20

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    Re: When will sheet film be obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by engl View Post
    The low number of LF photographers under the age of 30 should be a hint about where LF is going.
    While I'm just one person with a singular experience, I'm an under 30 photographer that shoots 4x5 and is in the process of learning wet plate; I personally know over a dozen other 20-30 year olds actively shooting LF. It's alive and well (at least in my circle of friends and acquaintances) as it offers a counterpoint and a sanctuary from digital, digital, digital.

    On a related note, a lot of what's being talked about in this thread with regards to LF vs. digital has been technical (sensor size, cost of production, etc.), but the thing that I think will guarantee the viability of LF for many years to come is the experience.

    The view camera comes built in with a ritual, and rituals are psychologically electrifying. Think of the Japanese tea ceremony, a Catholic mass, or even your morning routine--there is a meditative, transporting mysticism whenever there's a ritual involved (yeah, I read a lot of Joe Campbell). The view camera is slow, allowing all of the senses to steep and absorb every stimulus surrounding the photographer. It's really beautiful, and it's unique to the format/tools.

    Sheet film will be obsolete when the companies that make it decide to stop production. Like Polaroid. But I sincerely believe that as long as there are people caught by the experience of shooting LF, people will continue to find a way to keep the process alive. Even if it means establishing a sovereignty apart from manufacturers (one of the reasons I'm teaching myself wet plate, including how to make/procure materials on my own).

    Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to advocate for the "spiritual/existential" aspect of LF because I feel naming it is critical to grasp its importance and continued relevance.

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