IR Film development

[SAShruby]

Couple weeks ago I tried Efke 820 infrared film, first time ever. Shot one scene, made two takes. It was a nice landscape scene with trees close to Vancouver airport. I made it with Cooke 13" Series VI, using IR720 filter @ ISO 3, meter measured 15 seconds @ f16 for shadows. First shot was taken as meter said - 15sec, second shot tried to compensate for reciprocity - 45sec.

I used fresh Xtol developer, dilution 1+1 @ 10 minutes. Both went good with not bad densities, second one was better but overall they were flat and… fogged. So the question I have is where they got fog on them.

Could be the time when I was removing them from the filmholder and placing them on a reel?
Could they be exposed to my body heat? (it takes me about 20 seconds to load them on the reel and close the lid)
Should I do it next time in Harrison tent?
Anything else?
Do you get flat negatives too?
If not, what’s your process?

[BetterSense]

There's no way your body heat could be causing fogging. The IR emitted from body heat is several microns long and couldn't have an effect on the film.

I'm also wondering, wouldn't ISO 3 be about 1/2s at f/16? I'm wondering how you got all the way to 15s.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use this film and don't really like it. I guess I was spoilt by Kodak's IR film. It's not a "real" infra red film, as far as I'm concerned unless you shoot it with that opaque filter. I expose at EI 1.5 and develop in xtol undiluted in BTZS tube for 14 minutes. In a sunny summer day my exposures are usually around f/11 @ 22, reciprocity effect included. I too have noticed the occassional fogged sheet once the film approached expiry date and past it. It's important to use the box up asap. What's the expiry date on the box? How do you store it?
Hopefully someone will come along with a Kodak-like IR film...I wonder what's taking the Chinese so long...

[Robert Hall]

I shoot the film as well and I would say your exposures at f/16 might be a bit long, although the longer the better. I shoot it at 30 seconds at f/64.

I have to double the amount of developer at my normal time but don't see fogging unless I don't have the film holder in tight. I have had some plastic film holders fog around the edges when they have sat in the sun at all.

BTW, the Harrison is definitely not IR safe.

[drew.saunders]

Efke IR820 is a very "matte" film when developed, which I suppose looks a bit like fog. Maybe that's what you're seeing?

[rguinter]

I think you probably over-exposed. These shots on Efke Aura 120 film with my B&W 092 filter. Exposures in the f16 @ 1 sec. Bob G

[SAShruby]

There's no way your body heat could be causing fogging. The IR emitted from body heat is several microns long and couldn't have an effect on the film.

I'm also wondering, wouldn't ISO 3 be about 1/2s at f/16? I'm wondering how you got all the way to 15s.

I metered for shadows. It was a hazy day, not a sunny day. Went for a zone 3.5. Maybe I need to do more testing and try shorter times. As I said, densities were good, however the negative was overal dense and flat, I see some fogging on the unexposed side of the edge, meybe I overexposed and hit the upper density curve.

Update: I just realized I made a newbie error. Instead of dividing time to get to lower zone, I multiplied it. Oh my, I rely so much on my palm and BTZS, I completely forgot to do basic stuff. I'm so red faced right now.

[SAShruby]

I use this film and don't really like it. I guess I was spoilt by Kodak's IR film. It's not a "real" infra red film, as far as I'm concerned unless you shoot it with that opaque filter. I expose at EI 1.5 and develop in xtol undiluted in BTZS tube for 14 minutes. In a sunny summer day my exposures are usually around f/11 @ 22, reciprocity effect included. I too have noticed the occassional fogged sheet once the film approached expiry date and past it. It's important to use the box up asap. What's the expiry date on the box? How do you store it?
Hopefully someone will come along with a Kodak-like IR film...I wonder what's taking the Chinese so long...

Andy, want to go out this Sunday and shoot some IR?

[al olson]

Couple weeks ago I tried Efke 820 infrared film, first time ever. Shot one scene, made two takes. It was a nice landscape scene with trees close to Vancouver airport. I made it with Cooke 13" Series VI, using IR720 filter @ ISO 3, meter measured 15 seconds @ f16 for shadows. First shot was taken as meter said - 15sec, second shot tried to compensate for reciprocity - 45sec.
. . .

I agree with Andrew and Bob that EI=1.5 works well for exposing under bright sunlight. In fact according to the Sunny Sixteen Rule, this comes out to around 1 sec @ f/16 when using filters with 50% cutoff at 720nm.

However, there are other factors that attenuate IR light. One appears to be a low sun angle where the atmosphere attenuates IR. At least this is the conclusion I came to when I started a thread about a year and a half ago complaining about the thin negatives I was getting in late November light. In June I exposed some more IR film at the above exposures and they were right on.

I suspect that your situation with the haze is why your negatives look flat, although because of the haze your longer exposures were right on. On a bright sunny day, 15 sec. at f/16 would be way too long. A haze that is mainly dust seems to be penetrated more readily by IR than a haze that is mostly from humidity.

Under bright sunny conditions I can rely on my exposure meter at EI=1.5. Under other conditions I have to add an additional 2-3 EV to the meter reading, maybe even more. This is pretty much a guess.

With bright sunlight my IR negatives come out perhaps a little too contrasty, but I like them that way.

By the way, Bob, those are very nice images. I prefer the first of the four.

[rguinter]

...By the way, Bob, those are very nice images. I prefer the first of the four.

Al: So I guess I didn't really need to wade-in that day. Oh well. It was a hot sunny day and the water was cool so the wading was fun.

This one shot the week before on Efke Aura 4x5-inch. Similar exposure. And such a bright day that the infrared energy was just about everywhere... even in the shadows. Man was I sweating.

So the Efke has been working well for me and giving me good infrared characteristics. Probably the best of the currently available IR films although I do have quite a bit of Kodak HIE in the freezer. But there is no more of that to be had fresh.

Regarding the OP's original post: I suspect you are trying to be too precise. I find infrared shooting is a kind-of "wing-it" and hope for the best technique. Taking eV readings and trying to compensate with a visible light meter probably won't always work. Although I have thought about buying a screw-on 87 filter to fit my spot meter and working out an exact exposure value with it. But frankly till now I've been too lazy to do the testing and my results have been good enough without all that fuss.

My advice is to keep trying and bracket a bit. I love the B&W infrared images and when the system works the images are awesome. Cheers. Bob G.