SENATE DEFEATS EFFORT TO OPEN THE ARCTIC REFUGE TO OIL DRILLING

[Wim van Velzen]

Of course Eric, there are no enviromental problems! If there would be, we had to change the way we live. That is what we don't want, so there are no enviromental problems.

I guess this is what people call realistic?

[Sal Santamaura]

Eric - thanks for your well reasoned contribution. It's good to hear from those who keep an open mind, reach conclusions based on best available scientific evidence rather than wishful thinking, strive for an inclusive society, respect the constitutional separation of powers, and are always civil, sticking to issues rather than descending into personal attacks.

Were the US government to levy appropriate fuel taxes, resulting in gasoline prices rising to the level I described, there would indeed be temporary negative economic consequences for many decent, hard working people, including myself. I consider that alternative preferable to the path we're now taking. It is easy to conclude that, since ever-growing human population and its load on the environment has been tolerated so far, why worry now? The problem with this approach is that carrying capacity of the planet will be reached suddenly and irreversibly if we ignore the evidence and continue our exponential increase of exploitation and pollution.

[Jonathan Brewer]

You don't know this man, so making a snide comment on whether he did or didn't have kids is wrong.

[Wayne]

The USA has a strong economy, in spite of the nay-sayers, and we will continue to need new sources of energy to fuel our growing economy and population.

--

the economy, the economy, the economy. The economy, the economy, the economy. The economy the economy the economy. Growth, growth, growth. Growth, growth, growth. the econonmy the economy the economy. This is true patriotism! Who gives a flippin flop about anything but the economy and growth? This should always be the number one thing on our minds, always. Why should we, with more than anyone else, sacrifice one little penny that could be going into our pocket? Conserve? Develop alternatives? Sustainable anything? Nahhh! Hell, we could probably have even more money without these damn environmental regulations! The environment doesnt matter anyway, and theres nothing wrong! That *overwhelming majority* of scientists who say there IS something wrong are just angry because they arent on retainer by the oil companies. We dont have too much growth and too many people already, we need MORE oil use and people and growth to fuel our economy and growth, which will then grow more, and then we'll need more oil and people and growth to the fuel that economy and then of course more growth and more poeple and more...! This cycle then apparently continues, without end, in the small minds of those who support it. They think we can get bigger and bigger and richer and richer forever and ever.

Those who promote this endless growth attitude are apparently unaware of some very basic physical and ecological laws of this planet, and need to to be locked up for 6 months with nothing but an ecological economics book or two. If you really care about the economy, you should learn why we cant continue the way we have been forever.

We are not only economically healthy now, we are economically bloated and materialistically obese, and could stand to lose more than a little weight to help ensure our future health-or even just our future. Quite simply, we cannot sustain the madness of growth forever. Obviously some people, and oil companies, will never accept this on their own. Politicians will never address this pro-actively because its political suicide. It will only happen when the rest of us educate ourselves and realize the economic (and ecologic) fallacy and ultimately destructive effects of continuing to follow the endless growth mentality, and make it socially unacceptable. But we have been programmed to believe that growth is always good. We are so screwed up that it has become morally reprehensible to even suggest that growth and greed isnt desireable! In fact, growth has brought us many good things to be thankful for in the past, but there is NO reason to think it can continue in perpetuity, or that its drawbacks wont eventually outweigh its benefits. In fact, they already do outweigh its benefits for those who value open space, uncrowded wild places, wild things, and the possibility of a sustainable future in a liveable world.

[e]

Here's some statistics for ya....30% of the worlds natural resourses have been destroyed since 1970.The seas are in severe decline.Dont eat too much fish...esp the kids...unless you like mercury....that is if you can find the fish .Cancers on the rise...overuse of chemicals in food and animal feed.Disease on the rise...overuse of antibiotics.Rise in childrens asthma ...cause....air pollutants.General overall suffering of humankind... poverty/jobless/starvation....cause...overpopulation...which is directly or indirectly related to all the problems of humanity both physically and psychologically. Time to wake up! If you cant work for a better planet for altruistic reasons do it for greedy ones.....do you really want your children and grandchildern to live in a garbage dump?

[Ellis Vener]

I am so glad this isn't a usenet forum...

[Tim Klein]

The fact of the matter is that the ANWR debate in Washington is simply a political game that's being played by each party to earn points for their side. I don't believe for a second that either party really gives a rats a** about ANWR or its oil; they're just looking to mollify their constituents.

Politics aside, the unfortunate aspect that's being ignored is that defeating drilling in ANWR simply shifts the focus to other areas. Here's one of the headlines from my local rag yesterday:

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRM N_4_1097366,00.html

Again, I doubt anyone in Washington really cares about the outcome. You can bet they'll act like they do at their conventions though.

[Tim Klein]

Well, I doubly hosed that one up!

(screwed up the HTML AND I used the wrong link)

Try this:

Rockies eyed as plan to drill oil-rich refuge heads to defeat

[No One]

Good grief - have you guys never heard of the word "TROLL"? Note the guy who started this never replied to any other posts - he just sat back and had a good chuckle...

[Tim Klein]

So you're saying this guy is short, ugly, and lives under a bridge!??