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Thread: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

  1. #1

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    Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    I bought an Sekonic L-398A to use with my new 4x5 camera. My previous experience being medium format and digital with built in meters.

    The incident meter works as I'd expect indoors or outside in shade. I'm having problems when it comes to sunlit subjects outdoors (what I almost always shoot as a street photographer)

    I made some example pictures today to illustrate the problem (excuse the digital/test images ;p)


    First I metered the scene as I understood incident meters are to be used

  2. #2
    Pastafarian supremo Rick A's Avatar
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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    Incident metering is normally done by holding the meter in front of the subject being photographed and pointing it back toward the camera, exposing the photocell to the same light falling on the subject. If thats not possible, then hold the meter in approximatly the same light as the subject and take the reading. I've been using an L-398 for years, its one of the finest meters on the market. Have you read the instruction manual for it, its very explicit on how to meter for all situations. If your subject is in bright sun, but you cannot get next to it to meter, just hold the meter out in the bright sun and take a reading. This will give you the correct exposure. If its in shade, try to get a reading in the same approximate lighting, once again, correct exposure. I will assume you know when to insert the "high" slide, as well as using the lumidisc or other accessories.
    BTW, I dont see any images on your post(just the little red x in a box)
    Rick Allen

    Argentum Aevum

    practicing Pastafarian

  3. #3

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    Clicked 'Submit' instead of 'Preview' then my internet connection failed and it was too late to edit.

    Here are the images. This was an winter afternoon in New Zealand. About 2:30pm with the sun somewhat low but still intense.

    I used the 'high-slide' and metered like so. Meter says 320 foot-candles/15EV.


    Set the 'H' mark to 320 gives us F16, 1/125 at 100iso.

    Results appear badly underexposed.


  4. #4

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    Bracketed exposures for comparison.






  5. #5

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    This is how the EOS 40D's reflected light meter reads the scene. Overexposed, but easy to correct for as it's expected.





    What am I doing wrong with the L-398? I just want accurate/consistent exposure. F11 looks true to the scene. Why is my metered result so under-exposed?

    Any help much appreciated

  6. #6

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    With 100 ISO film, and exposure of 1/125 @ 16 in bright sun would an 1/3 of a stop underexposed. Your exposure should be 1/100 @ 16; thus your 1/125 @ 13 is a more accurate exposure.

    If using the sunny 16 rule, you must use the reciprocal of the ISO as your shutter speed. 100 ISO film shot at 1/125 with the sunny 16 rule will result in the slightly under exposed image.
    When I grow up, I want to be a photographer.

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  7. #7
    ki6mf's Avatar
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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    Color, Colour in the kings English! Film has a latitude like similar to black and white. The incident meters give you a reading that is calibrated to an 18% gray card. The issue you have is how may stops higher or lower are your highlights. In Color film you usually, but not always, worry about highlights. The trick is to judge what the highlights are. the range of Color film is usually, but not always around 5 stops. A stop is one full click of a shutter, the EV Scale on a meter, or aperture and lets in half or double the amount of light from the previous stop.

    With this background in mind and given that it looks like you do not have a spot meter to check highlights and shadow to determine tonal range there are a couple of things you an do.

    1. Take the incident meter reading in the brightest light available highlights will be two stops more. Shoot a couple of negatives changing one stop at a time. Print the negatives. This bracketing is like moving the histogram to the right in digital to get highlights correct. Over time you will develop a sense for where highlights and shadows are.

    2. Get a spot meter, practice to become familiar with its use and check for tonal range.

    3. Bracket your exposures and don't worry about all the testing.

    4. Use a digital camera as a light meter. If you do this option I would spend some time testing the digital camera with you hand held meter. Shoot in even light. Over time you will recognize the characteristics of the light you are in and can use the incident meter and interpolate what the exposure should be.

    5. While testing make sure to carry a note book and record notes on exposure shutter time of day etc. Take Notes on everything! time of day quality of light direction of light aperture and shutter etc. This is mandatory to help your figure out how to do your corrections.

    One final thing if you use your digital camera the vertical lines on the LCD are equal to one full stop of exposure and if your highlights are in the middle of the 2nd to the last field you are 1.5 stops away from getting the proper highlights. Keep in mind that you may need to also change the ISO reading in your meter from what the camera ISO reads to get the same reading. I would take a meter reading with the digital camera then vary the ISO reading on the meter to "calibrate" the Digital Camera and the Meter.

    This technique also works for getting shadows where you want them. In this case you would be exposing to the left on a digital camera.

    Consider getting graduated neutral density filters to bring you highlights "down" into the range of your shadows to get as much tonal range as the film will allow.
    Wally Brooks

    Everything is Analog!
    Any Fool Can Shoot Digital!
    Any Coward can shoot a zoom! Use primes and get closer.

  8. #8

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    "Get a spot meter"

    Exactly !

    You might find this brief article helpful.

  9. #9

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    I never did get a wrong reading with mine. I am strictly doing B&W, so one stop off must not necessarily show up though.
    All what can happen is that your highlights blow out or your shadows drown (or both of cause) if you find higher contrasts in the scene than your film can manage. The middle tones alway should be okay. You did check whether the needle is adjusted to zero?

    Ulrich

  10. #10

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    Re: Talk me off the incident metering cliff

    I am assuming that your underexposed example is a film scan.

    It appears to me that what you did was correct. ( of course I don't know what I'm doing )

    Perhaps the issue is with the scanning process.

    Edit; Or was this an all digital test?
    Go buy some film, and release the magic.

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