Gaoersi Portable vs Shen-Hao XPO 4X5

[shadowleaves]

Ok I used both Shen-hao TFC617 and now has a Fotoman 617 (probably the opposite pathway as compared to Lachlan?) and I think I do have some experience here. These comparison applies to the interesting topic on Gaoersi/Fotoman 4x5 P&S cameras vs non-folding field cameras like Shen-hao XPO or Ebony 45S/45SU/RSW45 etc as well.

In short these are just apples and oranges...I enjoy/enjoyed using both cameras. I really don't need to reiterate the pros or cons of either one, but at the end of the day it is the way each photographer chooses to take pics that determines which camera is better. Some people care about tilting, shifting, swinging, precise focusing, switching lense all the time whereas other people just want to take some snapshots before a decisive moment goes away. There isn't really good or bad here. All roads lead to one purpose - to take pics.

There were three reasons for me to switch to Fotoman. First, most of my trips in the near future will be backpacking ones. I won't have the luxury to drive a car and hauling a lot of gears. The advantage of Shen/Ebony 617 in the system weight only emerges when you have more than three lense, whereas I use 90mm and 180mm for most of the time, and I don't find myself keeping switching lense at one spot.

Second, although I deem the Fotoman viewfinder as pretty much unusable, it does have 3 hot shoes allowing you to use linhof 617's viewfinder (see pic below), which I just bite the bullet and bought. Didn't regret though, the linhof brightline finder is just so much more accurate. Fotoman VF is like crap compared to it - its framing will change more than 50% just as you move your eye around the eyepiece, plus its ridiculously low eye relief just drives us eyeglass wearers nuts. You can certainly use GG all the time, but that defeats the whole point of using these big P&S cameras. If I might suggest, get some linhof finders before GBP or Euro rises up to high level again....



Last but not least, while one can use tilting/swinging on a field camera to take some interesting pics, P&S also have its unique advantage. Bruno Morandi did some really wonderful photojournalism work including this one with a traditional 617 camera, which is pretty much impossible to take using a field camera:

[Lachlan 717]

Shadowleaves,

I thought that Bruno used an X-Pan, not a 6x17. Totally different proposition for shooting travel/photojournalism compared to any LF camera (the X-Pan is my suggested lightweight traveling camera).

As for "The advantage of Shen/Ebony 617 in the system weight only emerges when you have more than three lense (sic)", what about the volume in your pack due to the size of the nose cones? Was this any concern for you?

[shadowleaves]

Shadowleaves,

I thought that Bruno used an X-Pan, not a 6x17. Totally different proposition for shooting travel/photojournalism compared to any LF camera (the X-Pan is my suggested lightweight traveling camera).

As for "The advantage of Shen/Ebony 617 in the system weight only emerges when you have more than three lense (sic)", what about the volume in your pack due to the size of the nose cones? Was this any concern for you?

Ok I might have been misled by the 6x17 print ratio form his work...

I have three lense (90, 180, 300), and the two systems (each with 3 lense) take up exactly the same space (bottom part of a Kata UL-222). The nose cones are bulky but the camera body takes much less space than the TFC body and rollfilm holder did. Of course if you have four or more lense (e.g., 72, 90, 180, 300) then TFC617 has its advantage in gross volume. But in that scenario neither system will be good for backpacking anyway.

I have a Fuji TX-2 (Japanese version of Xpan II) and most of my travel pics were taken with it. But still, I wish I was using a 617 for many of those occasions which I used xpan instead...

[Lachlan 717]

I have a Fuji TX-2 (Japanese version of Xpan II) and most of my travel pics were taken with it. But still, I wish I was using a 617 for many of those occasions which I used xpan instead...

Same (well, I have the X-Pan). But I miss the 6x17 for its movements. Sometimes I don't want to shoot at f22 so that I get enough DOF. Give me tilt and swing!! Oh, and 6x17cm images...

[shadowleaves]

no....I was offered a good price for a used 180 VF and bought a new 90 VF from linhofstudio. For the 300 lens I guess I'll just stick with ground glass.

Your DC solution is very interesting but I really need a full horizontal view for my 90.

Hi Shadowleaves,
I agree with yu. It's about picking the tool that works best for different jobs, rather then trying to use a flathead screwdriver on a phillips screw (can be done, just no fun). No one camera does it all, but each different type can work better for certain tasks.

I found a way for the fotoman finders to work for me, although not at 100% (but good enough for most stuff). So recently I got the idea to try a digital solution. I purchased a Sony TX7 and mounted it to the Fotoman with a male flash shoe (Manfrotto 262 Nikon Flash Adapter) attached to the bottom of it (all looks quite good). This camera has a huge 3.5 inch viewfinder, and operates in 16:9. I covered it with an OPTEX LCD Screen Protector, then drew my crop lines on it with a Sharpie CD/DVD marker for both lenses. For the 90mm lens I lose a bit on the ends (but 100% see vertically), since the Sony sees 25mm and lens sees 18mm. For 150mm and above you get 100% accuracy. I still use the Fotoman finder, only pullinig out the Sony for when crops need to be very accurate (I hate darkcloths...as you said defeats purpose for buying these babies). I read the Linhof finder sees 90% (consistantly), but was looking for closer to 100%. It also shoots superb HD video in AVCHD format, and by playing with the exposure slider, different moods are created, which guides me for my final exposure. Less suprises.


The linhofs are obviously nice, but pricey if you need one for each lens. Did you adapt a mask (for each lens) over the front of the linhof finder to reduce costs?

[GPS]

no....I was offered a good price for a used 180 VF and bought a new 90 VF from linhofstudio. For the 300 lens I guess I'll just stick with ground glass.

...

It is well possible to use the Linhof 90mm viewfinder for a 300mm lens, with the appropriate mask, with very reasonable precision. A longer lens would be more difficult though. I use the same viewfinder with a home made mask on my 6x24 camera with the 300 mm lens and never had any issues with its precision.

[R Mann]

While all of the side comments on cameras and formats have been interesting - if one wanted a point and shoot with no tilt there appears to be only the Chinese option in 4x5.

I would like someone who has recently handled a Gaoersi to comment on the build quality and handling. There is also a Dayi that takes Toyo backs being offered from dealers in China - anyone ever see one of these in person?

Or, if one wanted this type of camera would it be better to build your own? I ask because in other threads there are a number of homebuilt 4x5 point and shoot examples.

[Lachlan 717]

Or, if one wanted this type of camera would it be better to build your own? I ask because in other threads there are a number of homebuilt 4x5 point and shoot examples.

Have you had a look through this thread?

There's a surfeit great P&S cameras there. Be warned, though; you'll come away jealous of the builders' skills and imagination...

[Lachlan 717]

Red light? Film count? Gaoersi film flatness?

You still don't seem to realise that this thread is about 4x5. It even says it in the title.

And you have the audacity to call me slow...

[R Mann]

My thanks to all you have commented - I find the information you get on this forum of great value - even when a thread seems to stray off the target. Nothing is better than the experience of others who have been using some of the equipment that is very hard to see and handle before investing.

Fotoman products have left the market place, so unless one happens to hit a used one at the right time, I think the only 4x5 options for less than $1000 are Goersi, Dayi, or make one yourself. The homebuilt thread was interesting, but I wonder about the time that you would need to invest to have a useable product (and how many mistakes I could make it trying to put one together).