Backpacking - tents, bags, and 4x5's.

**Curt Palm** · 7-Jul-2010, 15:16

Originally Posted by Jerry Bodine

Drew, I realize that this is on the edge of discussion here, but if you don't have an ice axe what do you use to dig a latrene 6" deep for TP etc? Burial is a MUST.

actually, depending where you are, the newer regulations are a bit differnet for TP:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildregs.htm

"All human waste must be buried at least six inches deep and at least 100 feet from water sources, camp areas, and trails."

"Carry out all trash. Do not burn or bury toilet paper or trash."

**Robert Oliver** · 7-Jul-2010, 15:25

please don't bury your used TP or trash. The animals dig it up after you walk away. I use one of my empty backpackers food bags to carry out TP.

In one section of the Sierra's, the Mt. Whitney zone, you are required to carry out your excrement and urine in little gel bags they give you on entry. Gross, but makes sense given the number of people that end up on that peak.

**tgtaylor** · 7-Jul-2010, 15:46

Rakesh,

During the summer of '08 I did a 165 mile trip down the John Muir Trail from Mammoth to Mt. Whitney. For that trip I decided to go the ultra light route and purchased a Granite Gear backpack, probably weighing about 2 lbs, a 1lb Western Mountaineering Down sleeping bag, a 1lb REI bivy sack, those folding cube pads that weigh about 1-lb, an Esbit stove to burn fuel tabs, a Gitzo GT0540 tripod with Gitzo G1177M ball head for my 35mm Nikon F3hp - for which I carried 3 lens, a couple of filters, cleaning kit and cable release in a Pentax 35mm camera case. My base weight, including all the above with water (1 Liter) and food came to 25.5lbs total. As an aside, I ran into Robert Oliver in the above post in the Rae Lakes region while on this trip.

If I did it over again, I'd bring the Pentax 645N with it's normal 75mm lens and the 45mm 6x7 lens instead of the 35mm and I would carry my now regular tent (which is a Big Agnes 2 person), the Thermorest ¾ air mattress and the above Western Mountaineering sleeping bag.

Thomas

**Drew Wiley** · 7-Jul-2010, 15:57

The Whitney trail is hardly typical of the high Sierra. There are plenty of areas where
you could walk for days without seeing anyone else. You dudes seem to have a wierd
obsession. Why don't you ask the bears what they do?

**kub** · 7-Jul-2010, 17:48

Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

The Whitney trail is hardly typical of the high Sierra. There are plenty of areas where
you could walk for days without seeing anyone else. You dudes seem to have a wierd
obsession. Why don't you ask the bears what they do?

Content of human stomach is different than those of bears. Our waste requires different enzymes to break it down because our diet is different....

**kub** · 7-Jul-2010, 17:51

Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

The Whitney trail is hardly typical of the high Sierra. There are plenty of areas where
you could walk for days without seeing anyone else. You dudes seem to have a wierd
obsession. Why don't you ask the bears what they do?

Content of human stomach is different than those of bears. Our waste requires different enzymes to break it down because our diet is different....you didn't think you could eat the rotten food that bears eat did you? The reverse of that is also true...

**jloen** · 7-Jul-2010, 18:36

IMO, as an experienced backpacker (5 weeks on AT last year) tgtaylor's reply is right on the money. Go lightweight with your pack, bag, and tent and then you can manage your photo gear too and still have a reasonable weight (~40 lbs or less). Anything much above 40 lbs is too much IMO. Back in my late teens I carried 70+ lb Kelty frame packs more than 1000 miles in a summer (never again).

IMO the recommendation of heavy frame packs is not good advice, especially for older (>50) men.

Go with the small boutique gear makers who have a good reputation for quality light gear. (not "ultralight", that is something else entirely). It need not be that expensive. Brands like Six Moons Designs, Granite Gear, Tarptent, and Golite are the ticket. Avoid Osprey, Arcteryx, Gregory, or anything sold at REI; they are too heavy and overbuilt. See more info on sources/philosophy/gear on www.backpackinglight.com , including some discussions of backpacking with film photo gear.

**NicolasArg** · 7-Jul-2010, 19:42

One more vote for the light route. I carry all my stuff for relatively short (several days) trips in an internal frame 75lt technical backpack. Here in Patagonia I'm forced to carry a heavy, 1 kilo sleeping bag even during the summer and it adds a lot of weight, but I cut it on my photo gear and camping supplies. I usually hang my tripod on the front of the backpack and the cameras go inside, in small padded bags (I used my monorail for several hikes and just hang the rail in the ice axe straps next to the tripod). I usually carry just one lens per format and if I know that the route will be rather technical, I carry them in a simple DIY PVC pouch.
I'm also a big fan of the chest bags for smaller equipment like a DSLR or a MF camera, this allows the use of a smaller attack style backpack for short scrambles.
Someone mentioned Golite, they are just fine and sell at an attractive price, just don't overload them beyond their stated capacity as they will most certainly crash.
The one and single item I can't still figure out is the tent. Either the tents are too flimsy to resist strong winds up in the mountains, or they are too heavy to be carried comfortably.

**Drew Wiley** · 7-Jul-2010, 20:10

Daypacks are one thing, extended wilderness travel entirely another matter. I covet
the day I can actually get down to a 60 or 65 lb pack and still carry 4X5. Losing
Quickloads isn't going to help. I've had two North Face medium duty tents shredded to bits in a single summer. Never again. I've had import pack straps break on the first day. Never again. I've traded my Sinar for a cute little Ebony, and my big old
plasmats for tiny little Fujinon A's. Cut weight everywhere realistic. But I've seen
enough people die in the mtns to recognize the distinct risk of lighwt gear unless one
has a short trip and predictable forecast. Now that I'm over 60 I can afford a little
luxury, like a Bibler I-tent, Goretex covered slpg bag, and graphite Gitzo. I've been
in serious blizzards every month of the year except July, and don't know how many
times I've had to carry an extra jacket, or sunglasses, or mittens just to keep some
poorly prepared person on the trail alive long enough to hike out. When I was a kid
I could move very quicky over twenty or thirty miles of steep off-trail terrain a day,
and packed ridiculously light, with a little Pentax hanging around my neck. Now I plod. Then on the day trips it's back to the 8x10 pack, which is about 70 lbs by itself.

**Drew Wiley** · 7-Jul-2010, 20:20

Nicholas - as I noted above, Bibler is THE tent. Not the cheap Bibler, but the original
I Tent or El Dorado. Around 4 lbs and will handle heavy snow loads and high winds.
About $500 for the small version. True extreme quality. My nephew used Bibler for his arctic and K2 climbs. He and a couple of pals did the first ascent of Escudo down there in the Paine area, which was allegedly the last of the unsolved great wall climbs. Loaned him my Bibler bivy sack (about 2-1/2 lbs) for some of these climbs. Sealed the seams with Geocel Proflex. Never had a leak yet.