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Thread: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

  1. #51

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    Not quite finished yet!

    A longer read of the booklet reveals that the data about the company's production of photographic lenses is a bit thinner than some of the other major makers. There are plenty of illustrations but not so much supporting text. I suppose this is due to their early demise and shortage of different catalogues. I think the serial number/dates could be wrong by a couple of years around 1855.

    The cup insert diaphragm system was in use before serial numbers were adopted. The example shown on page 234 of d'Agostini's book is without serial numbers but has a complete insert cup shown. D'Agostini talks about both lens barrel inserts and hood inserts.

    I reproduce the tables of sizes for the 15" Petzval, so you can find yours! Note that Lerebours made three speeds for each basic lens diameter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpeg   image.jpeg  

  2. #52

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    Not quite finished yet!

    A longer read of the booklet reveals that the data about the company's production of photographic lenses is a bit thinner than some of the other major makers. There are plenty of illustrations but not so much supporting text. I suppose this is due to their early demise and shortage of different catalogues. I think the serial number/dates could be wrong by a couple of years around 1855.

    The cup insert diaphragm system was in use before serial numbers were adopted. The example shown on page 234 of d'Agostini's book is without serial numbers but has a complete insert cup shown. D'Agostini talks about both lens barrel inserts and hood inserts.

    I reproduce the tables of sizes for the 15" Petzval, so you can find yours! Note that Lerebours made three speeds for each basic lens diameter.
    I think this diaphragm system is really early, it starts around 1843/early 1844.
    It is an improvement introduced shortly after starting to produce Petzval lenses. Lerebours, quickly understood the need to control exposure times more accurately with this portrait lenses.
    ANACHROMATIQUE.

  3. #53
    Jon Wilson's Avatar
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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    Have Lerebours et Secretan with FL 7 inches +/- with three lens all have matching sn 8941 as does the barrel. It also has the “washer” stop. it also has the metal lens cap. Any idea when this lens was made?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 0B5FA95B-FD43-47BF-B96D-B91561C775EA.jpg   0A686C4C-BE91-4470-84CA-B28FA5AB0FD7.jpg   DBF9B945-181B-4FDC-B362-198B1D1AE176.jpg  
    Last edited by Jon Wilson; 7-Mar-2018 at 22:04. Reason: added question

  4. #54
    Jon Wilson's Avatar
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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    went back and reviewed the earlier posts and it appears my lens was made after 1855, but before 1860 since it uses the "washer" system.

  5. #55

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    You have the complete aperture cup assembley, and it it survived conversion to Waterhouse slot - not that common!

    You also have the highest serial number with lens scratching (so far!). Nearer 1855 than 1860, I think.

  6. #56

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    I have a nice 300mm Lerebours but it vignettes a little at infinity on 8x10. I think it's the lens hood that is the problem. On mine it doesn't seem to want to screw off, any ideas how to get it free? Cheers, John

  7. #57

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    The range around 1853 was as follows.

    Lens diameter 81mm

    - 20cm 1/2 plate
    -27cm. 16x22cm

    Lens diameter 110mm

    -30cm 16x22cm
    -37cm. 16x22cm

    Between 1855 and 1865 there were some additions:

    Lens diameter 95mm

    - 25cm 18x24cm
    - 30cm 18x24cm

    I don't think it is the lens hood, 30cm Petzval is generally considered as a full plate lens.

    -

  8. #58

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    Thanks for the info Steven. Seems like it is not the hood then. Cheers.

  9. #59
    Jon Wilson's Avatar
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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    Thank you Steven. I appreciate the benefit of your research. This one and my many Derory lens are some of my favorite.

  10. #60

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    Re: Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

    I have been into this before on other threads but I think it has relevance here.

    I have read that Lerebours was plagued by counterfeit lenses - wish I could remember where! But I have never seen any. There were three lenses with apart engravings last year with the same retailer name added. My conclusion was eventually that these must have done by special arrangement with Lerebours as anything else matched with genuine lenses.

    So if there were no typical forgeries, why did Lerebours complain about counterfeits?
    I think the answer is Vallantin. He started an independent production of lenses after having being employed at Lerebours from 1840 to 1856. He had the nerve to engrave his brass sleeves with this information and with "Lerebours" written in rather large script. As Vallantin was making the same range of Petzvals and Meniscus lenses as Lerebours, this would probably have been considered by Lerebours as an gross affront. This was made worse by a man called Colas living in London and making sliding box cameras importing Vallantin lenses (with ink lens edge identification) and engraving them "Colas eleve de Lerebours, Paris" - so a "Lerebours" twice removed. It looks like Vallantin gave up engraving his lenses for a 'time" - under pressure from the powerful Lerebours, perhaps? - and then went over to plain "Vallantin".

    How is this relevant here? Well, I would suggest that the date of Vallantin leaving Lerebours in 1856 and the start of his provocative engraving ( 1856 or 1857) was the reason for Lerebours's anger and resulted in his extreme decision to serial mark all his component lenses. So lens scratching starts in 1856/7 and probably ends when Vallentin falls into line.

    By the way, as this knowledge of lens marking has been lost for over a century, I suggest we call these lens marks "Garrett marks" after the OP!

    Later: It appears that lens scratching marks existed well before Vallantin's departure from Lerebours, as there is a very early engraved serial number (2113) which has these marks. The present date for the start of serial numbers is 1845 with a probable start at a very low 20xx!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg   image.jpg   image.jpg  
    Last edited by Steven Tribe; 13-May-2018 at 02:09. Reason: Interesting idea - but disproved!

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