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Thread: 24 inch Printer Advice

  1. #1
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    24 inch Printer Advice

    A client of mine is looking for a fancy new printer 24 inch , with profile making onboard would be a bonus for him. As well he may be interested to use the Cone Inks as well.
    Any advice on current models, by those using them.

    As well I am looking for a 24 inch unit in the fall when a couple of leases drop, I am not concerned about onboard profiling as I have the Xrite eye-one unit to make profiles.
    What may be of interest to me is the ability to make digital negatives for alternative printing.
    Currently I have a 60inch cannon ipf9000 and am very happy with the colour capabilites of this unit.
    I use a lot of un-sized water colour paper on the machine so this is important to me.
    I would like to hear about any other makes that users have and their thoughts about possible alternatives to the Cannon.

  2. #2

    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Bob,
    The current Epson, Canon and HP 24" printers are all good machines. I've been using a 24" HP z3100 with excellent results. Recent driver upgrades seem to have put the early teething problems some users had to bed. I've now printed three major shows on the machine, including all the hundreds of proof images.

    I've used mostly glossy/ satin type papers but recently did a large mat print B&W print and got a signing quality image on the first try. I got a machine with the Advance Profiling Solution and it really is magic. The profiles the machine makes are consistently equal to or better than manufacturers profiles, and the profiles can be tweaked if desired. The best part is the whole process is automated, a huge time saver.

    The HP makes really strong B&W images with excellent ability to render subtle tonal separations. I tested the HP z3100 against the Epson 3800 and personally prefer the HP results. Given the quality of the HP B&W inks and drivers your client may want to look at this versus a 3rd party B&W solution.

    I have made some digital negatives for a lith application with the HP. They did show star wheel marks - so the HP may not be the best choice for negatives. I was using a rather old type of film supplied by a client, who was happy with the negs. More current materials may give a different result, though I'd want to test an HP printer to make sure this would not be a problem if digital negs were important to me.

    I've used large Epson printers quite a bit. I like them. My advice is to choose the printer with the best set of features to match needs and then work and work with the printer to really learn it. While I was already an experienced digital print maker and got good prints out of the HP right out of the box, I didn't feel that I had really mastered the printer and was getting the very best from it until I had to replace the first ink set.
    Cheers,
    Photomagica

  3. #3
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Thanks for that, one of our clients have a 44HP and we mount the prints onto artcare foam, and she is using a HP current line with the densitometer. Her prints are quite nice, but she talks about a spray protection coating that is done with the HP which I found odd.
    Is this an option when buying HP?? And on your 24inch??

  4. #4
    Youngin Daniel Stone's Avatar
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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Bob,

    I have an IPF5100(17" model), and I love it. A friend of mine has the IPF6100(44") and loves it too. Inks are reasonably priced, but being that they only come in 130ml bottles, somewhat limiting compared to the 220ml ones from Epson. Not sure about 3rd party inks though, you might have to go to Epson for that(7900 from what I've heard is quite a nice printer).

    don't you already have a 60" machine though? Seem to remember you mentioning something about it somewhere here or on APUG.

    -Dan

  5. #5

    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    I think the HP "spray protection coating" refers to the Gloss Enhancer. Unlike the Epson, which combines a gloss modifier with the inks themselves, the HP provides an additional cartridge that applies a very, very thin clear coat. On glossy RC papers you can actually hold an HP print under the tap with no ill effects! Some soft drink got splattered on a proof on Espon Premium Lustre and I was about to throw it out. Instead I tried gently wiping the spots off with a wet tissue. They came right off with no artifacts.

    This is a standard feature on the HP z3100 and z3200 printers. While I don't use extremely glossy papers, a roll of RC high gloss came with the printer and I did a lot of proofing on it. I'd describe the result on the z3100 as the closest thing that I've seen to glossy Ilfochrome coming out of a pigment printer.

    While no printer that I've seen entirely eliminates gloss differential, the current HPs and Epsons are so good they make this mostly a non issue. If you are really picky about gloss differential, different papers respond differently on the various printers, so some testing is required to find an optimum combination. I haven't spent enough time with the Canon to from an opinion about its abilities to handle gloss differentials.

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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    A client of mine is looking for a fancy new printer 24 inch , with profile making onboard would be a bonus for him. As well he may be interested to use the Cone Inks as well.
    If they want to use the Cone Inks, they'll need to stick to Epson, and the 7900 is not supported to my knowledge, so you won't be able to get onboard profiling.

    Are they wanting to use the printer primarily for monochrome? Or a mix of color and monochrome? What about paper type: glossy/semi-gloss or matte (or both)?

    As well I am looking for a 24 inch unit in the fall when a couple of leases drop, I am not concerned about onboard profiling as I have the Xrite eye-one unit to make profiles.
    What may be of interest to me is the ability to make digital negatives for alternative printing.
    Currently I have a 60inch cannon ipf9000 and am very happy with the colour capabilites of this unit.
    If you like the ipf9000 you'll like the ipf6300 for a 24" model. The inks have improved in several ways, and so has the head technology.

  7. #7

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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomagica View Post
    ...the HP provides an additional cartridge that applies a very, very thin clear coat...
    Not really a coat under normal circumstances . It rather adds the Gloss Enhancer(GE) to the mix along with the other inks using special formula on the same heads assembly pass as the image gets printed. You can simply consider the GE being one of the 12 printer's inks.

  8. #8
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Hi Jeff

    This paticular photographer is really well known in Canada for his BW portraits so the possibiliy of Cone Inks would be a bonus .
    But he is also known for his colour prints so he would need both options.
    After talking to a couple of people with the Onboard densitometer I do not think this is a deal breaker, 24 inch printer current technology is probably suited for him.
    I think he would also use matte and gloss for his various projects.

    Personally : we are looking to purchase a 24 inch later this year. We started out with a Epson 76 and 9600 when we got into inkjet, Once we got the ipf9000 we gave away the Epsons as the upgrade was so impressive.
    I am very happy with the Cannon , but I have heard a lot of good things about the current Epsons. In fact we borrowed one**epson24 inch** for a workshop project and it was a solid performer.

    I have a Xrite Profile unit here so for me at least on board profiling is not an issue, I was just curious how those who use it feel about the benifits.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffKohn View Post
    If they want to use the Cone Inks, they'll need to stick to Epson, and the 7900 is not supported to my knowledge, so you won't be able to get onboard profiling.

    Are they wanting to use the printer primarily for monochrome? Or a mix of color and monochrome? What about paper type: glossy/semi-gloss or matte (or both)?


    If you like the ipf9000 you'll like the ipf6300 for a 24" model. The inks have improved in several ways, and so has the head technology.

  9. #9
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    What exactly is this spray coating??
    Is is something like the spray that Wedding Labs spray as protection on Prints.

    I am really not too interested in this add on to every print we make. For example I am using a lot of uncoated watercolour paper lately, I really love the look and its almost dumbing down of colour. I am not so sure I want this spray coating on these prints.
    For Gloss prints I use Lamda Fujiflex so most of our work with ink is on rougher papers.
    Can the spray bar, or coating be disconnected ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Photomagica View Post
    I think the HP "spray protection coating" refers to the Gloss Enhancer. Unlike the Epson, which combines a gloss modifier with the inks themselves, the HP provides an additional cartridge that applies a very, very thin clear coat. On glossy RC papers you can actually hold an HP print under the tap with no ill effects! Some soft drink got splattered on a proof on Espon Premium Lustre and I was about to throw it out. Instead I tried gently wiping the spots off with a wet tissue. They came right off with no artifacts.

    This is a standard feature on the HP z3100 and z3200 printers. While I don't use extremely glossy papers, a roll of RC high gloss came with the printer and I did a lot of proofing on it. I'd describe the result on the z3100 as the closest thing that I've seen to glossy Ilfochrome coming out of a pigment printer.

    While no printer that I've seen entirely eliminates gloss differential, the current HPs and Epsons are so good they make this mostly a non issue. If you are really picky about gloss differential, different papers respond differently on the various printers, so some testing is required to find an optimum combination. I haven't spent enough time with the Canon to from an opinion about its abilities to handle gloss differentials.

  10. #10
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: 24 inch Printer Advice

    Yes we do have a 60 inch unit, but it really is awkward trying to make small prints on a large unit with taking paper in and out.

    As well if you use a smaller roll the wear mechanisims or head travel can over time get distorted or worn unevenly and I fear that if I run a lot of small rolls there will become problems when we need good placement of ink on the left side of the printer on really large prints.

    This fear may be unfounded, but it is the case with RA4 processors and any good technician would make sure that all sides of the processor got run.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielStone View Post
    Bob,

    I have an IPF5100(17" model), and I love it. A friend of mine has the IPF6100(44") and loves it too. Inks are reasonably priced, but being that they only come in 130ml bottles, somewhat limiting compared to the 220ml ones from Epson. Not sure about 3rd party inks though, you might have to go to Epson for that(7900 from what I've heard is quite a nice printer).

    don't you already have a 60" machine though? Seem to remember you mentioning something about it somewhere here or on APUG.

    -Dan

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