May Need Help

[erie patsellis]

If you have a packard shutter, that would be ideal, however even without one, you should be able to block light with a black card during lens cap removal and replacement. I've had good luck with my 80mm and 105mm Rodagon at 2-4x (at around f16 to f22)

[bob carnie]

I am using the lens cap for shutter at 2 steamboats with no problem, I am solarizing these negs.
How about the 8x10 lens, I am hoping Jim G or Eddie may see this and suggest a lens, I just not sure which one.
I can get a smaller lens,, I am thinking a 90mm for the 4x5

reversing the lens??? or using an enlarger lens as a taking lens , I am clueless to this.
I am working very fast Rick.... the ability to open the lens wide to focus and compose and then close to working apeture is critical to what I am doing.
My typical shoot is like last Sunday,,,, Load 60 sheets of 4x5 and have the lighting setup and camera ready the night before.... Sunday morning turn on Van Halen and crank through 60 objects.... go to the darkroom turn on Prince and crank through 60 solarizations... and have them dry...

the ability to work fast is really, really important to me.

This may piss off the purist, but I do not care whatsoever about the image taking side of this project , but am more concerned about post film exposure. I have thousands of objects that may or may not work out with the initial solarization. I am totally concentrating on my printmaking skills to get the keepers.
I am using a simple lighting (hot lights from the 40's) dead on positioning of the camera, and wanting as much image size on either the 8x10 or 4x5.
I have a monster skylight that is giving overhead light and my exposures are only changed due to bellows draw which I use the onboard densitometer in my head to calculate.
Plans are to make 40 x 50 silver gelatin lith prints as the end result> the fact that a lot of my objects fall shorter in height than 4 inches is creating my image making problem. I am thankful for any optic help.

Just use a shorter lens. 210 is pretty long for 4x5, and will require about 16" of bellows draw at 1:1. My quick calculation suggests that an 80mm lens will provide the 4:1 you are seeking with the same 16" of bellows draw. The subject will be 4" from the lens, rather than 16" from the lens as with 1:1, so you'll need to make sure the camera does not shade the subject.

Given that most lenses are optimized for 1:10 or more, I would mount the lens backwards in the shutter--rear cell in the front and front cell in the rear--to turn that optimization around. That will get it a lot closer to the 4:1 situation you are throwing at it, though you may undermine the accuracy of the aperture a touch, and you may have to check focus after stopping down.

(Most enlarger lenses are optimized for 1:2 through 1:10, depending on focal length. They benefit from being reversed, too.)

You need two additional stops for 1:1. At 4:1, you'll need nearly 5 additional stops. Even using a hat as a shutter is no big deal.

Rick "who has reversed a lot of lenses for macro but never by swapping cells in a LF shutter" Denney

[bob carnie]

I have disabled the shutter on the 8x10 as it is activated with a bulb and does not work well. I am using the lens cap with absolutely no problems at two steamboats or three depending on bellows.
I have a bunch of enlarging lenses at around 100mm that I do not use, are you suggesting they would work.. I am thinking this won't work as an enlarging lens is a flat field optic design>yes no?? How would one of these lens effect DOField.

If you have a packard shutter, that would be ideal, however even without one, you should be able to block light with a black card during lens cap removal and replacement. I've had good luck with my 80mm and 105mm Rodagon at 2-4x (at around f16 to f22)

[rdenney]

reversing the lens??? or using an enlarger lens as a taking lens , I am clueless to this.
I am working very fast Rick.... the ability to open the lens wide to focus and compose and then close to working apeture is critical to what I am doing.

Just move the front cell to the rear of the shutter, and the rear cell to the front of the shutter. Make sure the lens won't poke in too far to run into something, but I think that will work fine. Same effect as reversing the lens but it keeps the shutter out where you can get to it. It will only affect f-stop accuracy and focus shift if the diaphragm gets moved far with respect to its original position between the cells, but I'd try an experiment with Fujiroid to check it before worrying about it. The lens will definitely perform better reversed at 4:1.

If there was a focus shift, I might try to figure out something else, or just try the lens in standard configuration to see how bad it is.

With the enlarger lens, if it has a filter thread, you can sometimes use the filter thread to make a reversing adapter so that you still have access to the aperture control. Don't forget to shade the lens tightly--the lights are going to be right at the lens and it will flare.

Your two steamboats at 1:1 will become 12-15 steamboats at 4:1, plus any reciprocity effects, unless you increase the lighting. That will slow you down, heh. But it will make a felt-hat shutter a lot easier, too.l

Rick "macro is challenging" Denney

[bob carnie]

Rick

Ok this is starting to make sense. I am checking focus on every shot at wide open so this eliminates the need for a roid.Y/N?
If this works and I can get to the diaphragm and shutter I will be good to go.

I will give try reversing the front and back and report back, the next shoot has over 200 1 inch high cool items. Will take me a couple of sessions.
For solarization, underexposure works to my favour, better black makie lines.

thanks

Bob

Just move the front cell to the rear of the shutter, and the rear cell to the front of the shutter. Make sure the lens won't poke in too far to run into something, but I think that will work fine. Same effect as reversing the lens but it keeps the shutter out where you can get to it. It will only affect f-stop accuracy and focus shift if the diaphragm gets moved far with respect to its original position between the cells, but I'd try an experiment with Fujiroid to check it before worrying about it. The lens will definitely perform better reversed at 4:1.

If there was a focus shift, I might try to figure out something else, or just try the lens in standard configuration to see how bad it is.

With the enlarger lens, if it has a filter thread, you can sometimes use the filter thread to make a reversing adapter so that you still have access to the aperture control. Don't forget to shade the lens tightly--the lights are going to be right at the lens and it will flare.

Your two steamboats at 1:1 will become 12-15 steamboats at 4:1, plus any reciprocity effects, unless you increase the lighting. That will slow you down, heh. But it will make a felt-hat shutter a lot easier, too.l

Rick "macro is challenging" Denney

[erie patsellis]

Another thing I forgot to mention, Componons generally fit into shutters directly as well.

For these types of projects, a few Componons mounted on DB boards and a Sinar shutter are indispensable, but easily done as well with what you have on hand.

I have use enlarging lenses numerous times over the last 30 years, purists/nay sayers be damned...

[bob carnie]

Well I have lots of enlarging Rodagons not being used, sounds like I need to find somone to fix me up.. when it comes to modifications I have 7 thumbs.
Like you , I do not care what the purists say either.

I can see the need for a permanent solution for this magnification issue . Knowing my way of working this will take me a few years to expose all the film I have planned and would like to have a set kit for the Cambo .

I really hope someone jumps in about 8x10 Studio Camera with the Big Barrel lens, Dave Wooten lent me a 8x10 Cambo with a 300 mm lens, I plan to use this camera for a few landscapes and as well use it up north at my daylight studio at the trailer. It would be impossible to take the Studio Camera up there so I need to figure how to do macro with the 8x10, not sure Dave would like me reversing the elements like Rick suggested.

Another thing I forgot to mention, Componons generally fit into shutters directly as well.

For these types of projects, a few Componons mounted on DB boards and a Sinar shutter are indispensable, but easily done as well with what you have on hand.

I have use enlarging lenses numerous times over the last 30 years, purists/nay sayers be damned...

[rdenney]

Rick

Ok this is starting to make sense. I am checking focus on every shot at wide open so this eliminates the need for a roid.Y/N?

Sure. The roid was just for checking to see if there was a problem with reversing the cells in the first place. If no problem, then proceed as usual.

Rick "wondering who else has reversed cells for macro" Denney

[poliweb]

If you can mount your 210 lens on the 8x10 camera, it will cover that format at 1:1 and larger magnifications. The image circle gets bigger as you focus closer. You'd then need less than half the bellows draw that you needed for your 480 lens.

Just an idea

Richard

[bob carnie]

Yes I would have to make a board , but I do know of a group here in Toronto that do these things, very expensive but yes worth the effort.

One thing not stated in my posts, I do not worry about fall off on edges , in fact for the solarization effect this would be a bonus. may actually create a nice effect.

If you can mount your 210 lens on the 8x10 camera, it will cover that format at 1:1 and larger magnifications. The image circle gets bigger as you focus closer. You'd then need less than half the bellows draw that you needed for your 480 lens.

Just an idea

Richard