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Thread: Camera choice for Landscape work

  1. #1

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    May 2010
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    Camera choice for Landscape work

    Been lurking & reading for a while soaking up the info.

    Have been a dedicated FF digital user and moved on up to MF with a Mamiya RZ pro II. Now wanting for get the further gains that LF offer.

    I have seen a couple of options for dipping my toe into the waters with 4x5 and would like your opinion. I've seen a Calumet view camera with 210mm Caltar lens and a Graflex crown graphic with a Wollensak Raptar 127mm lens.

    I know that the Calumet has full movements but is heavier and the Graflex is a lighter folding (field?) camera with relatively little movements.

    What to do

  2. #2
    Lachlan 717
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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    Landscape work generally doesn't require excessive movements. This is more the domain of architectural and still-life/table-top/studio work.

    If you're going to be getting off the beaten track, choose the lightest one. Second to this, get the one that's quickest to set up. Third, look at the bellows draw. Being able to put both wide angles and telephotos could be important (once you get the hang of your first lens!). Finally, consider availability of additional and/or replacement parts. Obscure cameras are like obscure cars: hard to get parts for!
    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

  3. #3
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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    Hold off a bit. There are so many options that are made available in each succeeding week that you are under no pressure to make a quick decision.

    The Calumet view cameras came in two general flavors. The first was the CC series, made during the 60's and 70's. They are heavy and bulky, and predate the move into modular view cameras at the lower end of the market. For example, they have fixed bellows and non-interchangeable backs. If you wanted to use wider or longer lenses, you used a different model camera--there were three versions. The normal version would not accept anything wider than 90mm.

    The second flavor of Calumet view cameras were made by the Dutch company Cambo, and is similar to the Cambo SC. There were several versions of these, but they all were fully modular with interchangeable bellows, large lens boards, and Graflok backs. These are lighter than the earlier Calumets and more flexible, but they are also bulkier.

    Both are monorail view cameras, which is a whole category of large-format. Monorail cameras were intended for commercial work, particularly for architecture, product, and studio photography. But they work fine in the field if you can deal with the volume they consume. For learning how movements work and for their extreme flexibility, they are good tools for those just starting with large format, and the Cambos and Calumets are so cheap that it's almost worth having one just to have around even if you end up working with folding cameras more often. I regularly see prices on the desirable Calumet 45NX (like the Cambo SCII) that are cheaper than reasonable-condition Crown Graphics, and the Calumets are decades newer. There are also, at any given time, about a zillion accessories that fit these cameras available on the market. With a bag bellows, these will easily handle wide-angle lenses down to 72-75mm. With a standard bellows, they will extend out far enough for probably a conventional 300-360mm lens, or longer lens of telephoto design.

    For only a little more, there are alternatives that were a bit more upmarket back when these were new, including my favorite example, the Sinar F series. These are even more modular than the Calumet and are also a little more compact. And they are more refined. If you are wide-angle freak, these will accommodate down to 47mm or even 38mm with the appropriate bellows.

    The categorical alternative to the monorail view camera is the field camera, which uses a sliding bed instead of a monorail. Most (but not all) field cameras fold up into the rear standard for easy packing. These in large measure grew out of the ubiquitous press camera, of which Speed and Crown Graphics are the most visible examples. Field cameras are usually more limited in movements, and getting the movements you want often requires more manipulations, but in landscape work these may be less of an issue.

    Field cameras are often built for beauty as much as for utility, and many were built to sell to photographic artists rather than for purely commercial applications. Thus, they tend as a category to be pricier than monorail cameras in the current market. If you intend to put the camera in a backpack, and folding field camera will make that much easier to do. The newer field cameras (or the older fancier models) have plenty of movements, but you may have to fiddle with several adjustments to achieve the same movements that would be easy with only one adjustment on a monorail camera. And it is sometimes harder to visualize what the camera is doing in terms of movements with a field camera, and may therefore be a little more challenging as a learning camera.

    Press cameras like the Crown Graphic were designed to be used hand-held, and make a number of compromises to support that application. They usually have few movements, including front shift, and front tilt and swing. The newer ones have a drop bed for handling wide-angle lenses, but 90 is a useful limit (Crown Graphics will probably work down to 75 or so, but Speed Graphics are thicker because of their focal plane shutter option and are limited to 90. They are limited on the long end, too, and longer lenses will usually require telephoto designs. But if you want hand-held large format, these are one of few options.

    Which of these general types you choose will depend on what you intend to do as a photographer. My usual recommendation is to start with a low-cost monorail and learn how to manipulate the movements to manage the image plane. If you buy a used monorail of good quality, and then later decide to move to a different type, you'll get back most if not all of what you spent on it. Given that I don't backpack with large format or need so small a package, I have stayed with the monorail and I do enjoy the flexibility. But if you intend to backpack with it right from the start, then the cheapest entry might be that Crown Graphic, with the understanding that you give up some of the power of a view camera.

    Rick "who owns both versions of the Calumet plus a Sinar F/F2" Denney

  4. #4

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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    Thanks Rick. I've seen a early (i think) Calumet view camera without a lens. Its seems to be in great condition. Its light grey with a red circular Calumet logo on the front panel. It appears to only have forward/backward and front/rear tilt & swivel movements. Would that be enough to get learning or would you recommend vertical (rise) movements as well?

    I regularly take a lowepro backpack with 2 dslr bodies 4 lenses, my RZII with 1 lens, polaroid and film backs as well as an aluminium tripod with ball head so a view camera would probably not be a weight issue
    Last edited by jrko; 10-May-2010 at 09:47. Reason: forgot something!

  5. #5

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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    The RZ is as heavy as most 4x5s ;-) it will soon be redundant.

    The best course is to buy and try the different styles -- monorail, folding, etc. -- as it is easy to resell them and break even if you buy them wisely in the first place.

    I tend to favor the simple monorails for starting out because the movements and controls are more obvious and apt to be experimented with, so you learn quicker. They are also easier and faster to set up, and usually more robust. At the expense of weight and bulk -- they aren't backpacking cameras.

  6. #6
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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    Quote Originally Posted by jrko View Post
    Thanks Rick. I've seen a early (i think) Calumet view camera without a lens. Its seems to be in great condition. Its light grey with a red circular Calumet logo on the front panel. It appears to only have forward/backward and front/rear tilt & swivel movements. Would that be enough to get learning or would you recommend vertical (rise) movements as well?

    I regularly take a lowepro backpack with 2 dslr bodies 4 lenses, my RZII with 1 lens, polaroid and film backs as well as an aluminium tripod with ball head so a view camera would probably not be a weight issue
    That's a CC-400, most likely. It has rise, too--that knob on the upper right drives a gear that will raise the lens standard. This is an old camera design, derived from the Kodak Master View. It's functional, but it does have its limits.

    If we were having this conversation in the 1980's, the old Calumet would be by far the best deal around. Likewise if you are looking at a $100-150 (with lens) camera and can't spend more. But these days, for very little more, you can get a camera that is lighter, more flexible, and easier to use. The flexibility means interchangeable bellows, backs, and rails. It means being able to mix and match a range of parts to meet specific needs. The best example is also a Calumet, but the newer Cambo-made 45 series.

    KEH has five of these at this moment, ranging from the simplest Calumet 45 to fancier Cambo-labeled models, and ranging in price from about a hundred bucks to less than three hundred bucks. You'll have to add a lens board and lens, but it's easy to get one of these with a decent lens for less than $300 if you choose carefully. It's hard to get a Crown Graphic with lens similarly good condition for that, and the Graphic will be decades older.

    Go to KEH.com, click large format (and large format again) and then camera bodies.

    Then, go to ebay, and search on Calumet Cambo. You'll pages of lens boards, bellows, Fresnels, tripod blocks, rails, and on and on.

    I personally think these are great starter cameras but they are good enough to keep using into the future, if you stick with the monorail design. The only downside to these is their limited ability to handle really short lenses--shorter than about 75mm (with bag bellows). If you are a wide-angle freak, a Sinar F is better and not much more expensive. The Cambos are a bit bulkier, but they are lighter, too.

    Rick "seeing lots of options" Denney

  7. #7

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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    There's a fourth category of camera that falls between a folding field design and a press camera, called a technical camera. Linhof Technikas, Wistas, and Meridians are examples. The common feature here is having revolving backs, and also swing and tilt of the rear plane, often via locking posts.

    The beauty of them is that they're all metal, virtually bomb-proof designs that fold up with a lens safely inside, and which can be deployed in about 30 seconds or less. Some may have rangefinders, a feature I find useful for landscape when the light is fleeting or when using a Grafmatic or roll-film back. Technical cameras have more generous moves than press cameras, but most are quite a bit less adept at handling wide angles than are monorails or folding field cameras with bag bellows.

    I've got a couple of Meridians. They're over 60 years old, yet light-tight and still tough as nails. Today they're relative bargains that turn up fairly regularly despite being rather rare and moderately collectible.

  8. #8

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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    I am intentionally being somewhat provocative here, but what I am expressing is my experience and others are free to disagree. I feel like I wasted 20 years with 5 different monorails before breaking down and buying a nice field camera last year (a Canham Traditional 5x7.) I still have 3 Calumets/Cambos (at least one is redundant and should be offered up for sale) but I shudder at the thought of carrying them outside of the house. In fact I found my much less capable Busch Pressman to get more use. The simple monorails are inexpensive to acquire, good to learn on and highly functional, but if you find that it's bulk is cramping your use of it, then move on quickly. In 4x5, I would look at the Tachihara, Wista, Shen Hao or Chamonix field cameras or a bunch of others now out of production.
    Last edited by aduncanson; 10-May-2010 at 12:11. Reason: Fixed my typo - Sorry Robert

  9. #9

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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    The RZ is as heavy as most 4x5s ;-) it will soon be redundant.

    The best course is to buy and try the different styles -- monorail, folding, etc. -- as it is easy to resell them and break even if you buy them wisely in the first place
    Or, do as I do:
    "It's easy to resell them and break them, even if you buy them wisely in the first place."

    I feel like I wasted 20 years with 5 different monorails before breaking down a buying a nice field camera last year
    Yeah, most my cameras are broken down, too. Like my car (wa-a-a-h!)

  10. #10

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    Re: Camera choice for Landscape work

    I've seen many many messages here and in other similar forums over the years from people who have been using a monorail camera for landscape photography and who want to switch to a field camera, usually because of the weight and bulk of their monorail systems. In that same length of time I've seen few if any messages from anyone wanting to switch from a field camera to a monorail for landscape work. I'd suggest starting out with a good relatively inexpensive field camera, maybe a used Tachihara, Zone VI, Shen Hao, etc.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

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