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Thread: What is your method for making digital negatives?

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Toronto, Canada
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    7

    Re: What is your method for making digital negatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    Yes indeed Ron Mowery
    please do not tell him I mixed him up he would not be pleased.
    He was a pleasure to spend an afternoon with and I want to spend more time with him.
    I saw a few 11x14 prints with Ron's emulsion on watercolour that really reminded me of Ektalure , which in the graded days was one of my favourite papers.
    It was coated perfectly. But I will still use the "cheater" products until I earn my 10th dan black belt in alternative process..
    say hi to Sam, I won't see him in May.

    I think I am still on my white belt with yellow tips.
    If that is where you are, I am still waiting to be invited to bow at the door of the dojo.

    This is a truly exciting time to approach alternate processes, and Bob a tremendous thank-you for your hard work and willingness to invest in making these processes accessible to more people. As I may have mentioned, for once I am grateful to be in Toronto, where we will have a world leading resource and centre for the advancement of alternate processes. I have just broken my teeth on learning the basics of Pd/Pt printing, and encountered obstacle after obstacle in setting up, (pizza wheels, not hitting dmax on film / dmin on paper, black dot syndrome, the whole bloody gamut of biblical plagues adapted for the Pd/Pt printer.)

    Oh, on smaller printers like the Epson R3880, the pizza wheel problm is avoidable by using the front end manual load feature. (I always attach the Pictorico to a piece of cardboard to reduce the chances of jamming, (just take the leading and trailing edge of the film to the cardboard. One thing to be aware of, and I know it sounds like hocus-pokus, is that the correction curve varies based on front-end loading and rear loading. I did not believe it either until Kerik Kouklis (see http://www.kerik.com/new/ ) published measurements showing the difference. (I should have sacrifices a chicken to the gods of alternate processes.) ... Irving Penn, father of great prints, pray for me now and at the moment I enter the darkroom.

  2. #42
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
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    Toronto, Ontario,
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    Re: What is your method for making digital negatives?

    My very first foray into digital neg's was a workshop Kerik and Ike presented at Photoshop, it was an eye opening experience for me and opened the door to digital neg's for me to explore.
    I then saw Ron Reeder in action and it was simply amazing how he had students producing killer pt pd prints in only two days.
    About 20 years ago I took a week workshop at Maine workshops and was introduced to the Ultra Stable process. My friend John Bentley at that time started down
    that wormhole and then met Todd Gangler and Charles Berger. This process is being reworked by many workers (hopefully Paulette and I here at Elevator) included.
    This colour process is the answer to colour stability that most all other colour processes lack. Gum Bichromate is an exception.
    Our lab started a platinum service for the Toronto community and due to the cost of making enlarged dupes from contact dupes , making the prints became a issue for the purpose of selling, we were too slow and too expensive for the local photographers.
    We never lost our interest in the service , but decided to start purchasing the equipment so that we could be self sufficient for monochrome carbon, colour carbon and pt pd. This included Scanners , Mac Computers, Training in PS, the Lambda , the dedicated Processor, The Film itself and yes digital inkjet machines to do pictorico neg's so we can do side by side comparisons with silver film.
    It has taken a lot of time and financial pain to slowly get to the point where we are today..
    Though we have made our fair share of prints, in alt over the last few years, I have been on a quest to nail three processes at the same time, I feel with confidence I have nailed the silver process, but my comment about white belt with yellow tips is pretty accurate. I feel the next few years will be our time to really put out some nice prints and without the help of some great mentors, Sandy King leading the way I feel we would be years behind.
    He has graciously came to Toronto , many times and we have traveled to him, to get our assistants, and even some clients up on the process which Sandy is a master.

    If I can get the silver film to work the way I think I can consistently , I do not think pictorico is the way for me. But believe me when I say it , Sandy's and Ron's prints that are here
    in our shop from digital ink negatives are what I am aspiring for, so in no way am I dissing the inkjet method as I know it works wonderfully.
    Since I have the equipment to do silver I am going to embrace it completely so that from a business side of view the square footage that our darkroom takes up is being funded by film and wet processes so adding this to our list of services is a prudent step.

    I agree this is truly an exciting time for printmaking as the current options are mind-boggling with various people going down unique wormholes and coming up with great images.
    For example.... Monty McCutchen here on this site exposes with a 20 x24 camera and makes IMHO the finest wet plate images currently produced. His time too make images is limited but man you have to see his work , simply outstanding.
    My goal is to combine alternative processes with registration methods using punched aluminum for the support to stop shrinkage, using materials that can allow me to get final print off the support.
    I believe that the silver film method I have worked with is the answer for me as I have already separated into the four CMYK channels with ease, and with Channel Blending very interesting combinations are at ones finger tips.
    Sam Wang in SC comes to mind , his work with mixing processes and using PS to his advantage is outstanding.

    I am really interested in discussing film separation negatives with workers here that are very digitally literate. Specifically the areas of applying stochastic screens at the PS stage and how the relationship/differences/ advantages between continuous tone film (Ilford Ortho 25) and that of Camera Film for Image setters. I am of the mind that once the screen is applied the coursness of it overruns the delicate pixel pattern that is in a given image. This then allows for what Mr Berger always says , that a hard dot is required to hold the highlights.
    His premise is that if I use continuous tone film without a screen pattern my highlights will bleed and not hold. My thoughts are that the Lambda is really just a big image setter and if I apply the screen then I have a hard dot.
    I have put this question to many people with very mixed results,
    The other idea is to put graphics line film in the lambda and get it to work, which the people at Durst have never heard of. Or either accept less perfect prints, or buy an used image setter and accept the dot patter that would be visible by loupe.

    Where are you located in Toronto, and do you take advantage of Gallery 44 or do you have your own darkroom to make the magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero_Equals_Infinity View Post
    If that is where you are, I am still waiting to be invited to bow at the door of the dojo.

    This is a truly exciting time to approach alternate processes, and Bob a tremendous thank-you for your hard work and willingness to invest in making these processes accessible to more people. As I may have mentioned, for once I am grateful to be in Toronto, where we will have a world leading resource and centre for the advancement of alternate processes. I have just broken my teeth on learning the basics of Pd/Pt printing, and encountered obstacle after obstacle in setting up, (pizza wheels, not hitting dmax on film / dmin on paper, black dot syndrome, the whole bloody gamut of biblical plagues adapted for the Pd/Pt printer.)

    Oh, on smaller printers like the Epson R3880, the pizza wheel problm is avoidable by using the front end manual load feature. (I always attach the Pictorico to a piece of cardboard to reduce the chances of jamming, (just take the leading and trailing edge of the film to the cardboard. One thing to be aware of, and I know it sounds like hocus-pokus, is that the correction curve varies based on front-end loading and rear loading. I did not believe it either until Kerik Kouklis (see http://www.kerik.com/new/ ) published measurements showing the difference. (I should have sacrifices a chicken to the gods of alternate processes.) ... Irving Penn, father of great prints, pray for me now and at the moment I enter the darkroom.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    7

    Re: What is your method for making digital negatives?

    Setting up a space to do this type of processing in my own house is something that is beyond me. Fortunately, the Toronto Camera Club has a small darkroom space in the basement, and I have a Nuarc 26-1K setup there. Due to all of the aforementioned issues in my previous message, I recently switched to Jon Cone's Method 3 on a dedicated Epson 3880. I hope to get into the club this weekend to print some step wedges, and am cautiously optimistic that the results will be much improved over the Epson inkset. Our club is located on Mt. Pleasant, south of Eglinton (about 500 metres.) It is my hope that once I have proper correction curves in place that I can stir up some interest in the club membership to try their hand at it. It would really take the club back to its roots, (which extend back to 1888.)

    It seems Elevator is just down the road, (Eglinton and Laird), so I will make a point of dropping over to see the facilities, and any work you may have on display. Proper registration for multi-layer work is a challenge due to shrinkage. I look forward to seeing your method, as such methods as gum dichromate require a good registration system. (Ask Ron Reeder to bring some of his multi-layer gum prints. They are stunning. I remember a still life of his that he brought to Contact that just wowed me.) I would love to take Sandy's workshop, and if any spots are still open in April, I will signup. (I have to wait until then to insure that I will have the time available, and if spots are still open, you will hear from me.)

    I took Ron Reeder's workshop at Contact two years ago. Since you are of his acquaintance, I have little need to say how intelligent, charming and gracious he is, as you will already know that. The students which signup for his workshop are in for a treat. He is a fine teacher, artist, and gentleman.

    And thanks again for your hard work, (not to mention financial risks), to support alternate processes.

  4. #44
    bob carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario,
    Posts
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    Re: What is your method for making digital negatives?

    A member of the Toronto Camera Club has spent a lot of time with Sandy and is a client of mine, He is setting up for Carbon printing at his home.

    There will be a couple of spots open in April, I hope that changes and if we are getting close then I will let you know.
    Two of Ron Reeders gum over pt pd are on my wall as well as two of Sandy Kings carbons, and Sam Wangs multiple hit images.

    Ron is special and if anyone ever gets the chance to see him work I think its worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero_Equals_Infinity View Post
    Setting up a space to do this type of processing in my own house is something that is beyond me. Fortunately, the Toronto Camera Club has a small darkroom space in the basement, and I have a Nuarc 26-1K setup there. Due to all of the aforementioned issues in my previous message, I recently switched to Jon Cone's Method 3 on a dedicated Epson 3880. I hope to get into the club this weekend to print some step wedges, and am cautiously optimistic that the results will be much improved over the Epson inkset. Our club is located on Mt. Pleasant, south of Eglinton (about 500 metres.) It is my hope that once I have proper correction curves in place that I can stir up some interest in the club membership to try their hand at it. It would really take the club back to its roots, (which extend back to 1888.)

    It seems Elevator is just down the road, (Eglinton and Laird), so I will make a point of dropping over to see the facilities, and any work you may have on display. Proper registration for multi-layer work is a challenge due to shrinkage. I look forward to seeing your method, as such methods as gum dichromate require a good registration system. (Ask Ron Reeder to bring some of his multi-layer gum prints. They are stunning. I remember a still life of his that he brought to Contact that just wowed me.) I would love to take Sandy's workshop, and if any spots are still open in April, I will signup. (I have to wait until then to insure that I will have the time available, and if spots are still open, you will hear from me.)

    I took Ron Reeder's workshop at Contact two years ago. Since you are of his acquaintance, I have little need to say how intelligent, charming and gracious he is, as you will already know that. The students which signup for his workshop are in for a treat. He is a fine teacher, artist, and gentleman.

    And thanks again for your hard work, (not to mention financial risks), to support alternate processes.

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