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Thread: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

  1. #1
    Barry Kirsten's Avatar
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    Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Hi all,

    I'm a novice when it comes to the digital darkroom and am having problems with some of my scans. I have just bought an Epson V600 scanner for my rollfilm negs and am dissatisfied with results from pyro negs, no doubt due to the way stain is handled. Prints are washed out, with depressed highlights, a bluish colour cast and requiring huge amounts of brightness and contrast to achieve minimally acceptable prints.

    I'm finding this with old negs as well as new, however earlier negs developed in D7 for example are not as bad as a recent roll of Efke developed in PMK (no doubt less stain with D7). By comparison, old APX25 negs developed in Rodinal print beautifully.

    At this stage I haven't tried playing with pre-scan settings, other than stipulating B&W neg film being scanned, and resolution. Do I need to apply more exposure to "burn through" the background stain, or am I missing something else? All thoughts welcome.

    Many thanks,

    Baz.

  2. #2

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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Kirsten View Post

    At this stage I haven't tried playing with pre-scan settings, other than stipulating B&W neg film being scanned, and resolution. Do I need to apply more exposure to "burn through" the background stain, or am I missing something else? All thoughts welcome.

    Many thanks,

    Baz.
    You need to adjust the brightness and contrast setting in the pre-scan with every different film and every negative you scan, whether developed in pyro or in a traditional developer. If you don't do this any good result you achieve will be nothing but luck and chance.

    Sandy
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
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  3. #3
    Gary Beasley's Avatar
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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Take a look at the blue channel by itself and see what you think. This kinda emulates a blue only sensitive graded paper emulsion which is one place where pyro does well..

  4. #4
    Barry Kirsten's Avatar
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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Thanks Sandy and Gary. Obviously a lot of learning to do.

    I only have Photoshop Elements at the moment. Any real advantage in getting the full version?

    Thanks again,

    Baz.

  5. #5
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Barry,

    So you're scanning as a color file? That's a good idea, as you want to preserve the impact of the stain. Are you scanning as a color negative or positive? You probably don't want to scan as a color negative, since this often involves the software attempting to get rid of the orange colored base of color negative film, which your film won't have.

    So scan as a color positive. Take your image into Elements and invert the image, i.e. change the image from a negative to a positive. Look at each color channel--red, green and blue--at 100% magnification. Look for detail, grain, noise, and tonal range. Usually the green channel is best, but with pyro-stained negs that might not be the case.

    Ok. So you know what channel gives the best results with your film and scanner. Go back into the scanner and use the adjustments to get the best channel spread out appropriately on the histogram. Don't worry about the other channels. Some scanning software lets you specify which color channel is used to make a grayscale file. If your allows this, set the software to make the gray from your best channel, and scan the film as a BW negative. If you scanner software does not allow you to pick the color channel used to make a bw file, then scan the film as a color positive. Bring the color positive file into elements. Invert. Convert the file to bw, getting rid of the two non-ideal color channels. Adjust image.

    Regarding Elements vs. Photoshop, as long as your version of elements allows 16-bit per channel files and adjustment layers, Elements should work fine. And you have it, which is a plus. After you became very good at using it, you'll have a good idea of what limitations the software has, and then you can make an informed judgment whether Photoshop would be worth it for you.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    You might find these two articles helpful.

    Scanning Tips

    Scanning the Green Channel

    The tutorials use the Epson 4990 - which should be very similar to yours. The images are Pyro Negatives.

  7. #7
    Barry Kirsten's Avatar
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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Thank you Peter and Ken so much. This is very helpful advice.

    I've read a lot of the discussions about digital vs wet darkroom on this forum and have kept an open mind on the subject. Since buying my scanner I have been able to work on some of my earlier negs and am amazed at what can be done. One of the greatest advantages I've found is being able to burn so precisely in a way I never could in the darkroom. Add to that being able to remove dust, scratches and negative defects - and probably a lot more than I'm yet to discover... I'm hooked.

    My only regret is that I didn't get the V700 scanner which would allow me to scan my 4x5 and 8x10 negs. Later perhaps... my next priority is a decent printer which will allow at least 11x14 prints with pigment based inks.

    Thanks again,

    Barry.

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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Kirsten View Post
    Thanks Sandy and Gary. Obviously a lot of learning to do.

    I only have Photoshop Elements at the moment. Any real advantage in getting the full version?

    Thanks again,

    Baz.
    Absolutely if you're going to scan negatives. A couple of features only in the full version I would consider to be essential are:

    Assign profile - scanner software typically doesn't assign a color profile correctly and it needs to be done manually.
    Convert Profile - need to move from ARGB or some B&W space to sRGB for web display, the ACE engine is very helpful.
    Soft proofing - want to see what that image is going to look like (approximately) printed without wasting the ink or paper?
    Selective Color - very useful in balancing film scans, color shifts are not always uniform from highlight to shadow.
    Curves - Also very helpful in balancing film scans ditto above
    Layers and masking are more full featured in the full version of photoshop

  9. #9
    Barry Kirsten's Avatar
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    Re: Colour problem - scanned pyro negs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    You might find these two articles helpful.

    Scanning Tips

    Scanning the Green Channel

    The tutorials use the Epson 4990 - which should be very similar to yours. The images are Pyro Negatives.
    "might find these helpful" is an understatement! There is a mine of information here which will save me much time in learning digital darkroom technique. A great resource, and the image quality also sets a standard to be aimed for in my own work.

    Many thanks again, Ken.

    Barry.

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