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Thread: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

  1. #11
    おせわに なります! Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    To Ken yes, development does continue in the water stop bath, more so in the thinner areas (shadows) and less so in the heavier areas (high values). But to really notice a difference you would have to go back and forth from developer to water stop a few times.

    Will my development method work well with Pyrocat?
    What is a good starting time for development ( I normally work at EI 50 on the film)?
    What type of agitation cycle is recommended?
    What stop times and fix times are best?

    Any other tips or recommendatons in the processing?
    FP4 and Pyrocat-HD is an excellent combo. I have uses both 4x5 and 8x10 formats. Pyrocat is also a great developer for Stand and Semi-stand development if you want to see extreme edge effects.
    For normal processing in a tube or tray, EI 64. My times are a bit longer than the norm for Alt processes, anywhere from 10:30 to 14:00. For silver printing, 10:30 (tube development), 11:30 for normal development in a tray (agitation 5 sec every minute). For Stand development, EI 40. 1 minute constant agitation at the beginning, 10 sec at 30 minute mark, and that's it. I do Stand development in a tube. There is a lot of what appears to be bromide drag, so to reduce this effect I pull the film out of the tube and invert it. Stand development is trickier than Semi-stand.
    Semi-stand is in a tray. 1 minute constant agitation at the beginning, then 5 sec every 10 minutes. If I let the film rest for 15 minutes instead of 10, I get lots of developer lines.
    I dilute Pyrocat 2+2+100 for normal processing (not stand), and for Stand, 5ml+5ml+1200ml water. I use a citric acid stop bath (30sec) and Ilford's Rapid Fix (5min).
    21 C for all processing.
    Some people give a water bath before development, but I don't bother with that.

  2. #12
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Klazek View Post
    I am a long time user of HC110 (Dil H) with FP4. I use slosher trays for 5x7 and 8x10 with a semi stand method. I am thinking of trying the pyrocat due to all the positive comments on this combo. I have read a lot threads and info already, but have not seen much with a slosh tray method.

    A few questions...

    Will my development method work well with Pyrocat?
    What is a good starting time for development ( I normally work at EI 50 on the film)?
    What type of agitation cycle is recommended?
    What stop times and fix times are best?

    Any other tips or recommendatons in the processing?

    Thanks

    Kevin
    I have not used the slosher method of semi-stand developement, rather upright tubes.

    To the first part of your question, Pyrocat vs. HC110. Some years ago (before Sandy introduced Pyrocat HD) the same Ken Lee here in sent me some scans that he had done of several films developed in HC 110 and PMK. Any doubts I had about switching from HC 110 to a pyro based developer were solidified by the difference in sharpness I saw in Ken's tests.

    As far as Semi-Stand, I've done a bit of this process and have standardized on 1.5 - 1 - 175 for normal contrast scenes. I rate the film at manufacturers rating as the SS process does not like film which has had generous exposure. Agitation is 1.5 minutes initial "vigourous agitation" after a three minute presoak. Film stands for 13 minutes, 20 second gentle agitation followed by 13 minutes stand, 20 seconds agit. and final stand of 13 mintues, total time in devleoper 40.5 minutes.

    The process is quite favorable to compressing extreme amounts of scene contrast as well as expanding scenes of low contrast to which I have various changes to dev. strength and agitation regime.

    Cheers


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  3. #13
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    What is the benefit of a mildly acid stop bath ? Is it to arrest development more instantaneously and completely ?

    Does development continue once the film is immersed in water ?
    Yes, there's a technique called Water bath development. So that's why an acid stop or fix is better.

    Carry over of developer into an alkaline fixer will convert it into a Monobath, these kind of issues are more likely to be problematic with Fibre based papers rather than films when a number of prints are being made.

    So when Sandy King says
    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    My personal procedure for negatives developed in Pyrocat is to use an acid stop bath of about 1/2 normal strength, followed by an alkaline fixer like the Formulary TF-4.
    Sandy King
    he's using the stop bath as a precaution.

    Stop bath (even dilute) is usually quite significantly more acidic than fixers like Hypam, so it's swings and roundabouts, but either way it's better to arrest development in an acidic solution.

    It's more likely that the early warnings about acid fixers and PMK can about due to silver image bleach in an older type Sodium Thiosulphate/Ammonium Chloride Rapid Fixer, rather than the stain being bleached, particularly as barely soluble silver complexes are formed in the process, and some of these might redevelop and cause additional stain if the film was reimmersed in the Pyro developer.

    Ian

  4. #14

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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    I found this formula for Kodak SB-8 Citric Acid Stop Bath

    Water 24 oz
    Citric Acid 1/2 oz
    Water to make 32 oz

    Water 750 ml
    Citric Acid 15.0 grams
    Water to make 1 litre

  5. #15
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    A Citric acid stop-bath will have a pH between 2 & 3, while Hypam is pH 5.2-5.4 so a very significant difference.

    Ian

  6. #16

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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    A lot of great info that confirms I will give it a try. Thanks to all! To get things started for N development, in a tray using a slosher rack, at 70F, for silver printing, how does the following sound? I will start with 1:1:100 mix and an EI of 100.

    Pre Soak: 5M ( is this optional or advisable?)

    Develope: ??? M with 60 s continuous to start and 5 sec agitation every minute (In Sandys CI chart, it shows 6 M in a BTZS tube. What is a starting point using a tray?)

    Stop: I/2 strength acid stop for 1M

    Fix: Ilford Rapid Fix for 5M

    Wash: 1M in hypoclear and 30M in water

    Kevin

  7. #17

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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    I found this formula for Kodak SB-8 Citric Acid Stop Bath

    Water 24 oz
    Citric Acid 1/2 oz
    Water to make 32 oz

    Water 750 ml
    Citric Acid 15.0 grams
    Water to make 1 litre

    That's the formula I use. FYI, 1 level tablespoon of citric acid weighs 15 grams.

    However, with Pyrocat, or any film developer, I don't use a stop bath, just a plain water rinse and I've never noticed any issues of any kind. I use Ryuji Suzuki's neutral fixer formula.

  8. #18
    おせわに なります! Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    Pre Soak: 5M ( is this optional or advisable?)
    I don't bother with a pre-soak for single sheets in a tray. I don't even bother with a pre-soak when using tubes.
    EI of 100.
    With a "normal" contrast scene before you, shoot a sheet at 100, another at 80 and one more at 64. Develop them for your chosen time. If you decide to use the shuffle method, then a pre-soak is recommended. I HATE developing more than one sheet at a time as you may introduce scratching and an increase in developer temperature from your fingers.
    Print them and decide which wins you over.

  9. #19

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    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    Andrew I was planning on some testing of EI's. What is a good starting time? I will be using a slosher frame in an open tray. As noted Sandy's chart indicates 6M (if I read that correctly) but that is for a tube process.

    Kevin

  10. #20

    Re: HC110 or Pyrocat HD for FP4

    Pyrocat Hde and FP4 are a winner for sure. If desired, you can take the color out of the negatives by adding a little sodium sulfite to the developer just before use. The only downside I found to Pyrocat HD was that it did not last very long in storage for me. I think there are new versions made with other than water (glycol??) that last a long time.

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