Ebay and PayPal Policies

[Len Middleton]

Maybe feeBay will finally greed itself out of business along with the latest craigslist search engines up and running... too bad feebay owns a big chunk of craigslist though. They'll surely muck that up too.

Mike,

I thought it was Kijiji they owned...

Do they control Craigslist too?

Len

[Mike Tobias]

Actually, it seems the 21 day hold is becoming very common place with PayPal. They kindly slapped my account with this just before Christmas without my noticing. No note, no explanation. If you read the fine print in their user agreement, they pretty much say that they can hold your money for any reason and for nearly any length of time they see fit. In 10 years on eBay I have 4 negative feedbacks, can count all the times I've had buyer disputes through PayPal on one hand, and none of my "DSRs" are below 4.5. For whatever reason, PayPal just decided to slap me with a 21 day hold on everything, and this also includes payments that go through PayPal but not from eBay! I've decided I'm going to sell all the remaining stuff I have on eBay, and be done with them as soon as I get a chance.

I should also mention, that the 21 day hold is actually fairly mild for some. My company decided to open an online version of our business, and so naturally we were going to use PayPal for some payments. My business partner discovered that they will also process credit cards at a fair rate, and so we applied for their merchant services. They instantly froze all our funds in the account while it was under "review." A week later when they decided to unfreeze our funds and approve our application, they also cheerfully announced that because of our "high risk" they were holding 30% of all funds coming through the account for 60 days. I can't imagine any business that can operate with that sort of constraint, and I can't also think of any other merchant that applies those sort of absurd standard. Our own bank (who we run in-store sales through) takes 3 days to process a payment, and we've never had any trouble in 5 years.

Another thing to note, and something that started me thinking, was something I read somewhere else online. Ebay profits have been plummeting like a rock, and eBay owns PayPal. At any given time PayPal probably has hundreds of millions, if not a couple billion, in held funds. All this probably looks great on the books. And PayPal is not regulated by any banking laws that I'm aware of, and thus not FDIC insured.

Ebay does own a share of craigslist, although they're currently suing eachother. The jist of what I've been able to glean from news reports is that they signed a non-compete agreement before eBay was allowed to sit on the board, then eBay opened Kijiji, and craigslist is accusing them of gaining access to the CL corporation simply to glean information to undermine craigslist. There's a lot more on the CL blog, but it should also be noted that eBay does not own a controlling share, and if the CL executives win their lawsuit, they'll likely not own any at all.

Mike

[Mike1234]

Mike,

I thought it was Kijiji they owned...

Do they control Craigslist too?

Len

Yes... 20 percent the last I heard.

[neil poulsen]

I have mixed emotions about this policy.

On the one hand, I don't like the idea that a buyer could say something hasn't arrived when it has and then keep the money. So, I make sure that I always ship USPS Priority with insurance and request delivery confirmation. Plus, it gets there quicker, and buyer pays. I don't know if deliver confirmation is enough, but it would help make a case. I currently have a valuable lens up for auction, and I've stated I will ship USPS Express with returned signature. Plus, Express Mail comes with complete tracking.

At the same time, I don't like the idea of getting fleeced by a seller. This has happened to me once, and I lost over $90. Thereafter, I was very careful about sellers having at least 100 feedback, all good. The thief who stole my money had only 21 or so.

As to the delay, it protects me as a buyer, and I don't feel that I need to be as cautious about seller feedback numbers. (How many feedback.) So, I have more purchasing options.

I resisted PayPal initially, but I had no choice if I wanted to sell. (Which I did and do.) Now that I'm settled in with PayPal (so to speak), shipments are much quicker and feedback is quick. No need to pay for money orders. Just to avoid problems, I'm very careful to accurately describe and photograph items that I sell. Lots of pictures. I sell "As Is", so no returns as yet. As to the extra charge, I don't like it. But, consider the market I'm reaching for the items I sell, and with no advertising. (Except for EBay.) I still consider EBAy a good deal, better than paying 20% commission at the local pro shop for a very small exposure.

[Brian Ellis]

I liked the old days of eBay best. You could pay with check or money order. As a seller it was nice since you could avoid all the Pay Pal fees as mentioned above. I've given up on both fronts since Pay Pal seems to be the only choice now.

I agree. I don't sell all that much but I'll be using ebay only as a last resort from now on.

Among other problems, it seems to me that the 21 day policy completely negates a seller's refund policies. I usually say in my listing that I'll refund the purchase price if the buyer notifies me within 3 days that he or she will be returning the item and ships it back to me within seven days. Now that's completely out the window. The buyer can use the camera for almost three weeks, decide he doesn't want it, and tell Pay Pal there's a problem. In which case my refund policy as stated in the listing is meaningless.

Live and learn I guess.

[Mike1234]

BS... the longer they hold your funds the longer they can invest YOUR capital into other ventures. You're being USED!!

[srbphoto]

eddie - "for example if you buy a watch and a rock comes inside the package PP will not cover you! (your CC should and ebay goods are covered) they say they do not warranties condition! that is just F ed up......"

They shouldn't warranty condition. Condition is subjective. One persons good is another's poor, is another's excellent.

A rock intead of a watch showing up is not a condition problem it is a fraud/theft problem. Paypal has a resolution policy if what you receive is different from what you purchased.

[neil poulsen]

I agree. I don't sell all that much but I'll be using ebay only as a last resort from now on.

Among other problems, it seems to me that the 21 day policy completely negates a seller's refund policies. I usually say in my listing that I'll refund the purchase price if the buyer notifies me within 3 days that he or she will be returning the item and ships it back to me within seven days. Now that's completely out the window. The buyer can use the camera for almost three weeks, decide he doesn't want it, and tell Pay Pal there's a problem. In which case my refund policy as stated in the listing is meaningless.

Live and learn I guess.

That's a good point on not being able to refund. I'm wondering if there's a way around that? EBay always urge sellers and buyers to work out problems on their own, so there may be a way around it. It's worth checking.

[Curt Palm]

..... and I don't consider Pay Pal holding the money to be the same as having the money in my bank account.

Anyhow, thanks again for the responses.

Pay Pal tends to think the money in your bank account is theirs too, at least the account you have linked to your paypal account. They can transfer money out of that account if they think it is necessary without notification.

[neil poulsen]

At the same time, 21 days is a bit much. Maybe 3 to 5 days would be sufficient.

Bob's comment is also very interesting. It sounds like maybe the legitimate venue for a court case is at the EBay user location.