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Thread: What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

  1. #1

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    I intend to buy a fairly inexpensive LF field camera in the next couple of month s. After reading these very helpful postings, I've taken a liking to both the Ta chihara and Wista cameras. However, I do landscape photograph in which I prefer to use lenses under 90mm. I've read that these cameras cannot effectively "handl e" wide angle lenses. Is this true? Are there any other big restrictions I shoul d be aware of?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    740

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    Kevin, there is always a trade off by buying inexpensive field cameras, namely stability and the ability to handle short lenses. In order to use lenses shorter than 90mm you need to be able to focus at infinity and in order to do this, you need to be able to bring the rear group of lens elements close to the ground glass screen. This necessitates the front and rear standards coming close together and this in turn bumps up the cost of the camera. When the standards are close enough you also need some degree of bellows movement. Regular bellows are not flexible enough or are too bulky to allow such movement. These are the reasons that cameras that at first seem "bargains" turn out to be anything but!! This usually involves the move to a more expensive camera that offers the required movements and bellows flexibility/interchangeability! What do you intend shooting? What are the focal lengths you envisage using and how serious are you about the move to LF or how experienced are you already? There are cameras that will handle short lenses and although the initial cost may seem prohibitive, in the long run they turn out to be true investments, well worth the extra outlay.

  3. #3

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    ... or you can buy a recessed lensboard.

  4. #4

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    The Wista DX handles 65mm lenses with its regular bellows. It's probably the shortest focal you can use on it though unless you have a recessed lens board.

  5. #5

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    Kevin,

    Have you considered the Shen Hao HZX-45AII? It's in the same price range as the Tachihara (considerably less than the Wista) and offers several features to mak e it more wide angle friendly. One of these is an affordably priced ($95) bag b ellows. I just received a bag bellows for the Shen Hao today, so I haven't done any extensive testing yet. Shen Hao also makes a nice, affordable ($55) recess ed board that might be all you need (depends on how wide you want to go and how much movement you need). BTW, this recessed board should also fit a Tachihara o r Wista...

    The widest lens I have currently is a 75mm f6.8 Grandagon-N. Here's what I've f ound. With the standard Shen Hao bellows and the 75mm focused at infinity, fron t rise is limited to about 8mm due to bellows compression. With the Shen Hao re cessed board and standard bellows, you can get about 15mm of front rise before t he bellows bind. With the bag bellows you can get a full 28mm of front rise wit h either the flat or recessed board (this is the limit of the camera's direct fr ont rise and exceeds the coverage of my 75m lens).

    With lenses shorter than 75mm and the flat board, front rise may be limited due to the top of the front standard hitting the inside of the camera body. For the se lenses, the recessed board would help (up to a point).

    The quality of the Shen Hao bag bellows is quite decent - especially given the p rice. The material is pretty thick which makes them a little stiff. This does not limit the movements so much as make installing the bag bellows a little slow ).

    I also shoot landscapes, but am not a real big ultrawide user. For my own use, the Shen Hao with the standard bellows with the recessed board would meet my nee ds with the 75mm. If you shoot a lot with wide angles - especially those shorte r than 75mm, the combination of the bag bellows and recessed board may be needed (just let me emphasize that I have NOT tried anything shorter than my 75mm on t he Shen Hao - I recommend talking to Jeff at Badger Graphics if you plan to use something shorter on this camera - just to make sure it will meet your needs). Also, it looks like the bag bellows will handle lenses up to about 180mm with fu ll movements. So, if you ONLY shoot wide to normal lenses, you may be able to u se the bag bellows for all your needs. Unfortunately, the camera can not be fol ded with the bag bellows installed, so you'd have to remove/re-install the bag b ellows whenever you needed to fold the camera for transport.

    There are other alternatives (Arca Swiss F Line, Linhof Technikardan, Ebony, etc .), but they all cost considerably more than the Shen Hao (you mentioned you wer e looking for an inexpensive field camera). I personally like the Toho FC-45X, but it's more than 2x the cost of the Shen Hao (but it's also about 1/2 the weig ht). The nifty Toho Eccentric Lens panel lets it handle lenses as short as 47mm XL (and I find a standard flat Toho board sufficient for use with my 75mm), but again this accessory costs more than twice as much ($225) as the Shen Hao bag b ellows. If you are really on a tight budget, you might want to consider the She n Hao. No camera is perfect, but at $625, the Shen Hao is a heck of a lot of ca mera for the money - and the accessories are affordably priced as well.

    Kerry

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    128

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    I have a Tachihara that I've had for about 20 years. I use a 65mm f/8 Super Angulon on it all the time with no real problems. The bellows is compressed quite a bit, restricting rise and fall movements, but the lens doesn't have a large enough image circle for this to be a problem. I also have to drop the bed out of the way, but that is no major problem, just a minor inconvenience.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    176

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    If your primary interest is in extreme wide angle work you might want to look at some of the speciality cameras such as the Silvestri and Cambo that allow the use of extreme wide angle lenses with roll film convenience up to 6x12.

  8. #8

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    Kevin,

    The above are all good sugestions. Some observations I've made are, that there are Field Cameras where Changing over to a Bag is not only NOT a Field Friendly item but it may require tools. And as has been pointed out Most will NOT fold with Bag unless you have an assistant or two. About the "Recessed" boards these are a Great help but be aware that some shutters are not Recessed Board Friendly. I have one combination that I am forever fighting with to Open, Close, Adjust, Cock and Release.. So ASK, ASK, ASK!!

  9. #9

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    Wista has a "wide angle" lens board for their metal technical cameras, that allows full access to the shutter and is much more convenient than a recessed board. It must be used with their bag bellows, but no tools are required for installation, and the combination allows all the movements available from a 65mm lens.

  10. #10

    What's this I hear about LFs not handling lenses under 90mm?

    I use a 75mm Grandagon-N f/6.8 on a standard (non-recessed) lens board with my Wista DX and get similar movements as Kerry mentioned regarding the Shen-Hao. I have not had any problems using front tilt either, though the amount of front tilt I use for landscape is usually pretty small.

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