What happens to JOBO CPP2 processor with only 1st upgrade motor?

[Lloyd Shield]

I have read many previous posts indicating the importance of looking for a Jobo CPP2 processor with serial number >2200 (3rd upgrade), indicating newer and stronger motor. What happens to units with the original motor or only the 1st upgrade (changed single bearing rotation motor to a double bearing rotation motor-(as per Jobo website)? Is it that the rotation is slow with the expert drums (eg 3005), does it lead to deficiencies in development &/or does the motor just wear out more quickly. Thanks for comments based on members' experiences.

[eddie]

after some usage they are unable to turn a fully ladened big drum. they die.

[John Powers]

As I understand it, most of the difficulties are with the Expert or 3000 series drums and a litre or more of fluid. This presents a greater weight problem than the earlier motors were designed to handle. If you are using smaller drums and/or less fluid the earlier motors may last longer.

John

[Bjorn Nilsson]

Do note that they may die, but that havn't happened to me yet. I don't use my processor every day and not with a lot of developer in them, but my CPP2 is a 1'st version and it still works as it did when I bought it 3 years ago. (I found an extra processor without the water tank which I have as a backup. Cost me some $60-70.)
The upgrading process with Jobo came from test-running the processor with e.g. an Expert print drum (for say 16x20" prints) or a 3005 with a full litre of developer. This setup was running 24-7 and the early motors did brake down. I recon the last ones eventually brakes down too, but at least they last longer. The thing to note here is that Jobo is a german company and they liked to build strong processors, which is why they ran hard tests and decided to upgrade the motors.
In my mind the upgrade scheme of the motors have lead to a belief that all motors but the last versions will brake down. That isn't the case, the early motors are only a bit more fragile than the last version motors, hence the early motors are a bit more likely to brake down, but nothing says they will.

So, finding a late version will give you the strongest motor, but at a premium. If you plan to run your processor for say 10 runs or more per week, this can be an issue for you. But if you only use the processor a couple of times per month or so (like I do), it's more important to clean and drain the processor and to keep the machinery serviced and lubricated.

//Björn

[Sal Santamaura]

...the Expert or 3000 series drums and a litre or more of fluid...

No CPA/CPP, regardless of serial number or motor upgrade, is designed to rotate more than 1 liter of fluid in any Expert Drum. One needs a larger Autolab for that; a 1.5-liter limit applies with those.

[Andre Noble]

Also, using bidirectional rotation option with a CPP2 and expert drum is neither necessary nor recommended as I only recently learned from this site.

[Michael Alpert]

Also, using bidirectional rotation option with a CPP2 and expert drum is neither necessary nor recommended as I only recently learned from this site.

Andre,

This is news to me. Bidirectional rotation is, I believe, what Jobo recommends. Where on this site did you find this information?

[Greg Blank]

Bi directional rotation is required for paper processing and smaller film drums. For Expert drums it is not required, I've tested this myself in practice finding no difference in the results of developing sing PMK developer.

I asked the question of the CEO of Jobo USA when the product distribution was being turned over to Omega Satter. His statement was that no, the Expert drums were not required to use it or for that matter designed to require it.

After working on many many CPP2's over four years time, I am lead to believe that the bi directional motion weakens the motor circuit if one is using an Expert series drum, furthermore a overly filled Expert drum.

What I do find required is the need to periodically lift the drum and insure that the chemical and water goes behind the sheets to wash off the anti halation backing. So I raise my drum once per minute for this purpose and turn the motor off while the drum is up and on once its back down.

Andre,

This is news to me. Bidirectional rotation is, I believe, what Jobo recommends. Where on this site did you find this information?

[Greg Blank]

I think only the ATL 2 plus and the ATL 3 because they were the only ones with 1.5 liter bottles. After those Jobo went back to a one liter bottle....but it could be other reasons that determined that.

No CPA/CPP, regardless of serial number or motor upgrade, is designed to rotate more than 1 liter of fluid in any Expert Drum. One needs a larger Autolab for that; a 1.5-liter limit applies with those.

[Greg Blank]

My processor was a straight shaft motor version two, multiple years ago I paid for the upgrade to the new style motor which is basically the same as the ATL motors. The circuitry is typically replaced at the same time and older transformer boards are not compatible with the newer motor. There are about ten components that get replaced to install the new motor.

Motors get sluggish for a variety of reasons, when I evaluate a processor I look for why it has failed, first I hook the motor up to a DC power source see how the motor functions when separated from the circuitry. If its powerful I know to look at circuitry.

I have actually taken apart a couple older CPP2 motors after finding them to be the problem. You can clean the brushes then reassemble the motor if you are patient and have about four to five hours of time. The older motors do have a fundimental weakness and that is the method the cog attaches. The screw and brass bushing are inherently weak and slipping is sure to happen over time of using the Expert drums....this can appear as sluggishness and also ruin film.

I have read many previous posts indicating the importance of looking for a Jobo CPP2 processor with serial number >2200 (3rd upgrade), indicating newer and stronger motor. What happens to units with the original motor or only the 1st upgrade (changed single bearing rotation motor to a double bearing rotation motor-(as per Jobo website)? Is it that the rotation is slow with the expert drums (eg 3005), does it lead to deficiencies in development &/or does the motor just wear out more quickly. Thanks for comments based on members' experiences.