Help, my b&w is TOO black and white

[Toyon]

I don't think the issue in your photography is toning. It is lack of midtone expression. I suggest you switch to FP4+ and use xtol 1:1 for development. Be sure that you don't overdevelop your negatives. Start with 7' at 68 degrees and see how that works out. Once you gain an increase in midtone breadth and subtlety your prints will assume a much less stark graphical b&w look. Only then, should you experiment with toners. It is a good idea to switch to warmtone paper immediately, however.

[Nathan Potter]

I'm guessing that the brightness range of your subjects is very wide. Metallic objects are a tough item to obtain a wide range of detail. You need to get the all the detail in the negative, preferably within a logD 1.5. Focus on this before the toning exercises. For extreme brightness ranges you might explore divided development such as implemented in Diafine or other divided types.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Tim k]

Another thing is presenting of the images: If the paper you present the print on is whiter than the base of the print, the print will often look a bit dull.

Sascha, you might be very close to part of my issue. I used a white mat, that is quite white. I really did not like the color, but it came with a frame, and I thought what the heck.

Thanks

[Tim k]

Ken, I will read the article, thanks.
I ran across the carbon printing tutorial, that I think was by Sandy King, a while ago. It sounded pretty trick. As I read step 1, then step 2 and then step 3, I thought I could do this. But when I got to step 32 I thought, OMG, I think I was lost about step 15. I think its still about 6 ft above my head at the moment.

[Tim k]

Toyon, I've been wanting to switch to Xtol, but for some reason I've been sticking to what was local and easy. Two days ago, I actually picked up some FP4, perhaps this is a good time to make the switch.
Thanks

[Darin Boville]

Ok, this is going to sound stupid, but here goes. I just opened the thumbnails, and they look better on my monitor than the prints in my hand. I dont know how to explain it, but I framed a couple of them with white mats with black frames, and they just look grey, hanging there on the wall.

What is the light level on the wall where they are hanging? I find many (most? all?) prints to be quite touchy regarding illumination levels.

--Darin

[Tim k]

They are in a small room, with lots of artificial light, and a small window. That may be what makes the white mats so bright.

[Brian Ellis]

A print can't be judged on a monitor, they two entirely different mediums. And they certainly differ from one person's monitor to the next. So I wouldn't make any radical changes in what you're doing based on suggestions here because you have no idea what anyone here is seeing on his or her monitor.

On my monitor your prints look very good. On the basis of your verbal description I was expecting to see something with blocked up shadows and highlights and little in between (i.e. way too much contrast) because that's what I think of when someone says their prints are too black and too white. But yours don't look that way at all on my monitor, they have very nice tonal gradations from accent blacks to bright but not blocked up highlights.

But if you don't like them and think they look too black and white then you could try reducing the development time for your negatives by about 15% and/or using a lower contrast setting on your adjustable enlarger head or a lower contrast filter on your enlarger if you're using filters. If those things don't give you the look you're after then you could try more radical changes.

[Tim k]

Thanks Brian, thats the nicest thing I've heard today.

I do agree about the monitor judgment thing. You take this paper thing in your hand, and squirt it with some light and turn it into electricity, then send it over this wire, where it goes half way around the world, then, gets reconverted into someone else's version of electricity. It is a little hard to form an accurate opinion.

That said, thank you everyone for your thoughts, and opinions. They all are very much appreciated.

I plan to order some warm fiber paper, work on my technique, and noodle with some toners, to see where it leads me.

[percepts]

Thanks Brian, thats the nicest thing I've heard today.

I do agree about the monitor judgment thing. You take this paper thing in your hand, and squirt it with some light and turn it into electricity, then send it over this wire, where it goes half way around the world, then, gets reconverted into someone else's version of electricity. It is a little hard to form an accurate opinion.

That said, thank you everyone for your thoughts, and opinions. They all are very much appreciated.

I plan to order some warm fiber paper, work on my technique, and noodle with some toners, to see where it leads me.

I will repeat. Noodle with some staining developers. That won't change print colour but it will change the "look" of your print significantly.