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Thread: How do they/you do this?

  1. #21

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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbo10ca View Post
    Will- I guess my confusion was in my incorrect notion that once I exposed past zone 5 or so, the highlights would all expand more or less equally with increased development, thus giving equal density across the board. When I have tried "super development", this seemed to be the case. For example, I did an extreme minimal aggitation of HP5 in a tube for 2 hours in HC-110 dilution B at 24deg C. I was expecting a massive contrast range- it was actually quite low (around log 1.1 using my RH Designs meter in densitometer mode) and had huge amounts of base fog. This shook what I had taken as gospel. I have been told though that dvelopment past a certain point will do this, so I am now wondering where the cut-off should be.
    2 hours is quite a long time. You'd be better off with stronger dilutions, shorter developing times, more agitation, or some combination of the three. For starters you could shoot a low contrast scene at normal exposure, +2 stops, +4 stops, and +6 stops. Then give equal development to all sheets, say your normal time plus 20-30%, make prints all at the same paper grade compensating for variation in negative density with changes in exposure time. Then you could easily see the actual effects caused by changes to your initial exposure.

    A great book that goes into medium to extended detail on this and other subjects is Bruce Barnbaum's, "Art of Photography" http://www.barnbaum.com/artofphotography.html. I have an older version (somewhere???) but I am sure the new revised version is excellent as well.
    Will Wilson
    www.willwilson.com

  2. #22
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Tim - different films require different approaches. I do think it is much easier to work
    with straight-line films than with something with a long toe in this kind of scenario.
    If you overexpose or overdevelop something like HP5 you're going to blow out the
    highlights, unless you know how to print using an unsharp mask. You can get deep blacks simply by overdeveloping a print itself or switching to a hard grade paper or VC filter. But that won't necessarily result in the scale of luminosity one wishes. Merely blackening out the shadows isn't the answer. The are just so many variables, in fact, that there is no substitute for simply experimenting a lot. Maybe the reason I had so much success recently is that I took the shots without a light meter, using memory and inuition, just like Brett!

  3. #23

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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandoman7 View Post
    Reciprocity can be a great friend when you want to drop an area into blackness.
    What does reciprocity (or reciprocity failure) have to do with making an area totally black?
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  4. #24

    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    What does reciprocity (or reciprocity failure) have to do with making an area totally black?
    I assume the question is a rhetorical one---I interpreted the poster as referring to the increased contrast associated with reciprocity failure.

  5. #25

    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Tim,

    one nasty little secret:

    TMax does NOT like bromide in the developer, SO add 0.5g potassium bromide to 1L of D76 as a start point. Worked well with the old TMax 100 to drop zone6 and lower out BUT very nicely developed from zone 6.5 up. Normal exposure and development times worked well as a start point.

    Have fun with it.

  6. #26
    multi format
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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbo10ca View Post

    I'm not after a magic recipe, just an approach that people use- it seems to be a pretty common type of image. I know these types of images can be made with any film or developer. Or digital cameras.... I'm after what kind of lighting I should be searching for in nature or making myself. And what tones I should be exposing for and what kind of + development. Is high grade paper also helpful?

    Thanks,
    Tim
    hi tim

    i've done this with lowish light and a longish exposure ..
    kitchen overhead light and a 5 or 10 or 20 second exposure ( i don't really remember ) ...
    i processed the film in low contrast developer and the film was under developed ...
    i think i made a contact print on azo #3

  7. #27
    Tim Bowles timbo10ca's Avatar
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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Thanks everybody- lots to play with now!
    If only we could pull out our brains and use only our eyes. P. Picasso

    http://www.timbowlesphotography.com

  8. #28

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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbo10ca View Post
    Will- I guess my confusion was in my incorrect notion that once I exposed past zone 5 or so, the highlights would all expand more or less equally with increased development, thus giving equal density across the board. When I have tried "super development", this seemed to be the case. For example, I did an extreme minimal aggitation of HP5 in a tube for 2 hours in HC-110 dilution B at 24deg C. I was expecting a massive contrast range- it was actually quite low (around log 1.1 using my RH Designs meter in densitometer mode) and had huge amounts of base fog. This shook what I had taken as gospel. I have been told though that dvelopment past a certain point will do this, so I am now wondering where the cut-off should be.

    Brian- I'll check out that website, but I was just using his images as an example of the "look" I was after. I figured he had to be doing some interesting studio lighting, but I also imagine those images are not straight out of camera. If he uses film, he must be doing something like we're talking about.
    Tim, Along with any type of regimen in processing one must consider the materials that one is using. Not all films are capable of reaching the same density scale (contrast range). Once the maximum development for a given emulsion has been reached any additional development will only serve to build uniform fog. That fog has the effect of diminishing contrast since you are adding something to the lower density ranges that was not there previously. One would think that this fog would be linear in it's effect on all densities...this is not the case because one must consider the percentage variable compared to the specific density.

    Donald Miller

  9. #29
    mandoman7's Avatar
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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    What does reciprocity (or reciprocity failure) have to do with making an area totally black?
    If you expose beyond 1 sec. then the darker areas in the image get less exposure than the lighter ones, compared to a faster exposure. Its a way of dropping out the darker tones while leaving the lighter tones somewhat unaffected, so its not an "increase in contrast" as mentioned by another poster.
    Approached from the opposite perspective, keeping the shadow detail in images longer than 1 sec can be a challenge, involving big increases in exposure and changes in dev. time. Doesn't it make sense that not making those changes would result in the loss of shadow detail?
    I had a project in the 90's shooting fresh picked vegetables next to a single window where I used this effect for many shots to help give emphasis to the shapes. This example is a good one as the detail and texture in the white squash is retained which wouldn't be the case if there had been increased development.
    JY


    John Youngblood
    www.jyoungblood.com

  10. #30

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    Re: How do they/you do this?

    Quote Originally Posted by pocketfulladoubles View Post
    This is an interesting concept. Could you elaborate?
    I use reciprocity failure to "increase contrast" -- actually drop the very low values even lower while leaving the mid-tones and highlights about the same. There is so little light hitting the film in the shadow areas that the film there does not react as quickly as in the mid-tones and highlights...there is a bit of a lag.

    I find the effect nice if there are a lot of small areas of deep shadow that I do not mind going clear on the negative. So I will increase exposure a little (not as much as recomended) to counter the reciprocity failure, and instead of the recommended reduction in development, give more development. (a good carbon negative for me is unprintable in silver gelatin -- too much contrast).

    I would say that instead of increasing contrast over-all, it increases the apparent contrast -- those small areas of pure black impact the viewing of the image. It has a significant impact on my carbon prints, as maximum black is translated as increased raised relief on the print.

    Vaughn

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