A question of ethics.

**jnorman** · 27-Nov-2001, 12:09

michael alpert - i believe it was matthew brady that is credited with large numbers of photos which he did not take. o'sullivan worked for brady during the war, but most of his photos are generally from the later western exploratory expeditions on which he served as photographer, so there isnt too much doubt that he actually took those views.

inre: the chelly photo - i am not aware of where adams actually gave o'sullivan credit for the original view - can someone point me at a reference where adams discusses this? as far as adams "interpretation" of the scene being so different from osullivan's, i think old tim was just trying to document the view, not create some dramatic, enhanced view using a red filter. documentary photographers are, by definition, trying to record a scene as it appears, not to create an alleged work of art.

**Dave Mueller** · 27-Nov-2001, 12:49

RE: The Adams reference. I remember reading it, but can't remember which book. Adams was talking about the difference in the final prints, specifically the "old" version which was done on glass plates that had extended blue sensitivity, and Adams could not match the shadow detail with his film. Or something like that. I do not remember who he referred to as the photographer. I only have 4 of his books, so it's in one of them: The Camera/Negative/Print and The Making of 40 Photographs. I'd guess The Print or The Making...

**Frederick Leif** · 27-Nov-2001, 13:35

Re: JNorman's query on the source of Adam's commentary on the O'Sullivan view of The White House. It is referenced in Examples, The Making of 40 Photographs on page 127:

"A blue filter like the No. 47 would have given values very similar to those of the O'Sullivan photograph, but I had lost my blue filter. I used a green filter (Wratten No. 58), which better defined the sunlit areas; it also darkened the shadows in the recess."....

**David Leblanc** · 27-Nov-2001, 13:49

Seriously, this is wasting everyone's time. Take it out in private guys, this isn't a schoolyard and we're not going to take sides. I find there's been an increasing number of off-topic postings lately and it's starting to take away from my enjoyment of this forum, which I cherish as the most professional *public* discussion board on the net. If this trend continues an invaluable resource for amateur LF photographers will be gone and a community destroyed.

**Chris Partti** · 27-Nov-2001, 14:00

Regarding Adams & O'Sullivan: Adams' comments on the similarity between his and O'Sullivan's White House Ruin photographs were inconsistent over the years. In the Examples book he either strongly suggests or states outright (sorry, I don't have the references at hand at the moment) that he only remembered the O'Sullivan photograph after printing his negative, some weeks or months after making it. In the published collection of his letters, however, there is a letter to Buemont Newhall (I believe) written within days of Adams' visit to Canyon de Chelly in which he makes clear that he had the O'Sullivan picture in mind when he made the image and was trying to duplicate it.

**andrea milano** · 27-Nov-2001, 16:20

Well it seems that answering this posting is a bit like two photographers taking pictures from the same place...... .

We all answer the question, some of us perhaps give the same answer which somebody else did, yet, each answer matters to at least two people, the one who posted the question and the one who is answering, to say nothing about all those who so patiently read all these answers.

If anybody makes a point of being "Original" it would be like saying that playing classical music is unethical because you offer an interpretation which might be kind of like (but not exactly....) the one anybodyelse would offer while interpreting the same piece.

Most of us like doing what we do and we might engage ourselves in the interpretation of classics without having to bother about those who are merely Bullies.

Bully-ism is very common everywhere, photography hasn't only Gentlemen and Dames among its followers and some of us might have been the nasty school Bully who has ruined your youth and in some sad cases , your life.

This site has, unfortunately ,some followers who like picking on other people. Any posting is scrutinized and where some can hit hard...... they do it. It is a low blow to hit on somebody's language or typing skills. However, I'd quote and try to translate the Italian Bard, Dante Alighieri, who wrote : " Take no notice of them, just look .....and walk on"

**david clark** · 27-Nov-2001, 21:10

Hi Nigel, well, I caught the Adam's photo at the Eastman House show this summer, and it was inspired by the previous photograph, and as I remember, Eastman hung both prints side by side. It was a great show. I think you would have enjoyed it. I remember once I shot this scene on the Columbia near Vantage, WA. I showed it to a friend, and his response was something to the effect, did I notice all the tripod marks on the ground at that point. Turns out it was one of the most photographed vistas in the region. Does that mean I'm going to drive past it? I don't think so. Best, David