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Thread: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

  1. #111
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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Hey, I can draw. I spent several years in architecture school before realizing that I didn't just want to draw, but rather create, and that creation meant more for me than just representation of walls and space. Switching to engineering gave me insight into a design process that started much deeper than aesthetics, but that for me still demands elegance to do it well. But I don't confuse that with art.

    I've known a lot of painters. I've never known a single one of them who shied away from calling themselves artists, even if they were modest (some appropriately so) about their abilities. For them, it was not a term of pretense, but a simple statement: I make art. Many of them do explore different media, but I have never known one who said, "Gee, in addition to oil painting, I am now trying charcoal, so now I am a real artist." They experiment with different media because they are still looking for the voice that rings true for them--that is uniquely theirs. I painted and drew from earliest childhood, and one or two of my childhood attempts are still hanging on walls, providing some visual interest that goes beyond (maybe not far beyond) mere decoration. I was never particularly painterly--even my paintings were photographic in their approach. So, as I experimented with media, photography came along and finally resonated with how I wanted to express myself. I'm not really all that good in the grand scheme of things, but like those everyday painters out there who unpretentiously call themselves artists, I will too.

    I'll make this point again: When we make all these demands on photography just to be Art, those who feel the joy and try to express it often get rejected by definition. That does two terrible things, in my view: 1.) It invalidates what should be a legitimate artistic experience being felt by real people who don't care about these sorts of discussions, and 2.) it applies a different and more demanding definition of art with respect to photography than what is customarily accepted for painting, drawing, and so on.

    Not everyone is born with artistic talent. Most who are not don't care, and spend their time in other pursuits. Some are not and still wish to be, having ideas they cannot express either through lack of skill or inability to understand their own feelings clearly enough to express them. In the music world, people spend their lives attaining mere mediocrity. I spent the weekend at Watermelon Park in Virginia listening to musicians of all abilities (and ages) desperately trying to develop the ability to create the music that touches them to the core. Most never achieve excellence. But are we really so wise that we will reject what they do as music?

    Many would like to apply a standard to art, beneath which art is not art but mere scribbling or snapshots. Personally, I think they need to get over themselves. If the photographer felt something deep, and still feels it when looking at it hanging on the wall, someone else is going to get it. When that happens, art has taken place. Maybe it's an accident, but does that really matter? Maybe it will never happen again for that artist, but does that really matter? Maybe the expression is flawed by poor technique, requiring one to dig deeper to see the expression, but does that really matter?

    Were the cave artists who made their cave art (and I've never heard it called anything else) trying to express something profound or were they just keeping track of their day?

    Rick "thinking art is not well-served by a priesthood" Denney

  2. #112

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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Quote rdenney: "were they just keeping track of their day?"

    When you get the extraneous BS out of the way, what else is there that any of us can really do? When we try to put words to it; to attempt to build it beyond what it really is we are only trying to put legs on a snake.

    Donald Miller

  3. #113
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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    The ancient "artists" were conjurors. They summoned magical beasts from nowhere in hopes they could affect the hunt. Those drawings some probably predate words, but the subjects were recognizable-feared , maybe worshipped or both. When one paints in a darkend room your mind becomes rather focused at the same time your other senses tend to drift and pick up on "whatever".

    Showing a picture,everyone knows what the subject is if the work is executed well, and then they lose interest and move on.

    Going backwards a bit, abstracts can make the viewer somewhat uneasy. Abstracts tend to have less recognizable features equaling fewer associated words. When the viewer finally figures out a thought-word description that works for them, they either hate the work or love it and want to possess it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller View Post
    Quote rdenney: "were they just keeping track of their day?"

    When you get the extraneous BS out of the way, what else is there that any of us can really do? When we try to put words to it; to attempt to build it beyond what it really is we are only trying to put legs on a snake.

    Donald Miller

  4. #114

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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Blank View Post
    The ancient "artists" were conjurors. They summoned magical beasts from nowhere in hopes they could affect the hunt. Those drawings some probably predate words, but the subjects were recognizable-feared , maybe worshipped or both. When one paints in a darkend room your mind becomes rather focused at the same time your other senses tend to drift and pick up on "whatever".

    Showing a picture,everyone knows what the subject is if the work is executed well, and then they lose interest and move on.

    Going backwards a bit, abstracts can make the viewer somewhat uneasy. Abstracts tend to have less recognizable features equaling fewer associated words. When the viewer finally figures out a thought-word description that works for them, they either hate the work or love it and want to possess it.
    When we try to put words to it; to attempt to build it beyond what it really is we are only trying to put legs on a snake. The point is that there is no need for words any more than a snake needs legs.

    Donald Miller

  5. #115
    Greg Greg Blank's Avatar
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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    & You are expressing your opinion in written form for that very reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller View Post
    When we try to put words to it; to attempt to build it beyond what it really is we are only trying to put legs on a snake. The point is that there is no need for words any more than a snake needs legs.

    Donald Miller

  6. #116

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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Can someone name a few well known photographers that they consider artists and explain why they are. That would help me (an admitted "For Dummies" reader) understand the concept.

  7. #117
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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Here is a short list of photographers who have and do create art IMOP, some maybe intentionally some maybe incidentally.

    Carleton Watkins
    Alfred Stieglitz
    Edward Steichen
    Walker Evans
    Man Ray
    Edward Weston
    Minor White
    Paul Strand
    Imogen Cunningham
    Andreas Feininger
    Ansel
    Jerry Uselmann
    Michael A Smith
    Irving Penn
    Arnold Newman
    One of my Teachers "Bob"


    You really have to look at the imagery to understand why. I will note an interesting tidbit....a few years back the US postal service ran a series on American Photographers, I bought several complete sheets of the stamps, in every image 20 total I note that the subject and lighting bisects the image area from upper left to lower right. Kind of interesting because its 20 different photographers work and all are verticals.




    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Pere View Post
    Can someone name a few well known photographers that they consider artists and explain why they are. That would help me (an admitted "For Dummies" reader) understand the concept.

  8. #118

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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    how about a few more living and practising ones...

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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by percepts View Post
    how about a few more living and practising ones...
    just a few that come to mind right now from a *very* large potential list

    Robert and Shana ParkeHarrison
    http://www.parkeharrison.com/slides-...her/index.html

    Susan Burnstein
    http://www.susanburnstine.com/

    aaron siskand (deceased)
    http://www.aaronsiskind.org/images.html

    carl chiarenza
    http://homepage.mac.com/chiarenza/Menu2.html

    ralph gibson
    http://www.ralphgibson.com/

    Oliver Gagliani (deceased)
    http://www.westongallery.com/gagliani_oliver.htm


    some from our forum

    kerik kouklis
    http://www.kerik.com/images.htm

    bill schwab
    http://www.billschwab.com/

    chris jordon
    http://www.chrisjordan.com/

    david burdney
    http://www.davidburdeny.com/

  10. #120
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    Re: What makes you an Artist rather than a Photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Pere View Post
    Can someone name a few well known photographers that they consider artists and explain why they are. That would help me (an admitted "For Dummies" reader) understand the concept.
    Part of the process of developing as a photographer is generating your own list. I would start with some of the anthologies that you'll see in any bookstore. If something sparks a response from you, think for a bit about why it does so. Don't miss any traveling exhibition of photography within reach, even if you have never heard of the photographer. At least half the historical photographers I admire I discovered by one of two methods: 1.) perusing books at Borders, and 2.) being praised in the writings of other photographers in their books. Those become starting points. For example, Ansel Adams praised Paul Strand, and based on that I found and bought the Aperture book on Strand's work as a starting point for his work, and so on.

    Much work is posted in this forum, and that sort of critical review is possible here in large measure. It's less of a historical understanding of art photography, and more of a process of developing your own concept of photographic art, but that's how I read your request anyway. In only a few months, I've developed a short list of photographers whose work I really admire, and a much longer list of photographers whose work I think artistic.

    I personally think photographers and artists should spend as much time doing this as in making their own art, just as I believe the best writers read and the best musicians listen to music.

    Rick "noting the difference between photographers who are artists and photographers I happen to admire" Denney

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