tiny Protar question

[Emil Schildt]

I looked around my lenses and found, that I am the happy (?) owner of a tiny Protar lens.
It is really small (look at the images attached), 100mm,F8, made by Krauss on Zeiss patent (I think).

(The size is shown on the last two images.)
Any of you know this lens? What was it used on (camera) - is it any good?

thanks in advance.

[IanG]

That's a big Protar

I have a Ross f16 (Protar) 151mm that covers 10x8 it's tiny It's not marked Protar as it's WWI vintage, Zeiss were actually technically paying Royalties to Ross up until WWI for EWA Protars as they used Ross Patented designs. But in practice up until WWI Ross & Zeiss worked closely anyway sharing technology.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

That's a big Protar

I have a Ross f16 (Protar) 151mm that covers 10x8 it's tiny It's not marked Protar as it's WWI vintage, Zeiss were actually technically paying Royalties to Ross up until WWI for EWA Protars as they used Ross Patented designs. But in practice up until WWI Ross & Zeiss worked closely anyway sharing technology.

Ian

Are you sure that Zeiss used Ross patents? Prove it; no statement by H. Lynn Jones counts.

I'd always understood that Ross licensed designs from Zeiss, as did Suter, Koristka, Krauss (France), B&L, and no doubt others. Ross also licensed designs from Goerz.
And Beck licensed Steinheil designs; if I could get past their lack of coating, I'd like to try a Unofocal.

Not to denigrate the UK optical goods industry, which had many outstanding opticians and mads many fine lenses, but the only instance of a German lens maker licensing a UK firm's lens design that comes to mind is Leitz, who licensed a 6/4 double Gauss design from TTH.

Cheers,

Dan

[Ernest Purdum]

I'm feeling frustrated because I can't be sure if it has a "Series" identification or not,

I don't think it can be a Ser. IV or V, the proportions are wrong. I am guessing it is quite early and probably one of the less frequently encountered designs.

I'm also unable to tell just what sort of diaphragm it has.

[Emil Schildt]

I'm feeling frustrated because I can't be sure if it has a "Series" identification or not,

I don't think it can be a Ser. IV or V, the proportions are wrong. I am guessing it is quite early and probably one of the less frequently encountered designs.

I'm also unable to tell just what sort of diaphragm it has.

ernest: I think it has.. but the letters are so small, it is difficult to read clearly..

here is what I see written:"No 32514 Protar Zeiss 1:8 F100 mm B te sed(?)h(?)(The "h" could be a "II") E. Krauss Paris"

it has an aperture scale, but with no numbers written on it, and a slot for filter(?)..

hope that helps.

[IanG]

Are you sure that Zeiss used Ross patents? Prove it; no statement by H. Lynn Jones counts.

Dan

I'll try and find the details for you Dan. As far as I remember the main Ross design licensing related to the wide angle Protar which was itself then covered by a Zeiss Patent

Up until 1914 the tie up between Zeiss and Ross was the closest of all the licensing agreements mainly because it gave Ross the rights to manufacture & sell Zeiss designs in the whole of the British Empire. Ross were manufacturing a wide range of Zeiss designs as well as their own, they had a similar agreement with Goerz.

The outbreak of the First WW brought that to a close because Ross took then over a relatively new UK Carl Zeiss factory at Mill Hill, London which was producing Military binoculars as well as some camera lenses.

It's a poorly researched area but Ross & Zeiss had many agreements. Maybe some of the documentation is in a Record Office somewhere in the UK.

Ian

[Alan Rabe]

I always thought the slots on these old lenses were for Waterhouse Stops

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks, Ian, and good luck searching. Much of this stuff is pretty obscure.

When my Zeiss guru Charlie Barringer answers the phone I'll ask him if he's aware of Ross designs used by Zeiss. And if we're lucky Arne Croell will notice this thread; he may well be able to contribute solid information.

Cheers,

Dan

[Emil Schildt]

I always thought the slots on these old lenses were for Waterhouse Stops

me too, but as this lens has a multibladed aperture, then it might be for a filter..

(but there was a reason why I added the sentence with a question mark.. )

[Dan Fromm]

Um, Ian, Charlie called me back. He denies having special expertise, also is unaware of any use of Ross designs by CZJ.