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Thread: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

  1. #1
    Confidently Agnostic!
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    Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Due to circumstances (I have to move into a small bachelor suite in Vancouver for work) I can't really use my darkroom as much as I'd like. I think the best thing for me to do at the moment is to get into digital printing. I would like something that will make nice prints, and also enable really good alt-process digital negatives (for cyanotype & van dyke, mainly, but possibly other experiments in the future).

    11x14" is about my maximum size. I do love printing 16x20s in the darkroom, but I don't think I can afford such a printer at the moment!

    I know about the Epsons with their nice mix of black and grey inks, etc, but I'm really not sure about the other brands.

    So recommendations would be appreciated.

    Budget is in the $1000 (Canadian) range, give or take a couple hundred. Probably translates to $700-$1000 in USA prices (I won't want to buy one shipped from B&H or something, so it'll be an overpriced local purchase).

    Quality is a big consideration but of course consumable prices & availability are factors. I'll mostly be printing on mid-weight matte paper and transparency material for alt processes.
    Last edited by walter23; 20-Aug-2009 at 10:01.
    Walter Ash
    Vancouver / Victoria BC
    http://ashphotography.ca

  2. #2
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    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Take a look at the HP Photosmart Pro B9180 printer.

    Judging from your description, it will meet all of your needs.

    I really like mine.

  3. #3
    Joanna Carter's Avatar
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    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Quote Originally Posted by walter23 View Post
    Due to circumstances (I have to move into a small bachelor suite in Vancouver for work) I can't really use my darkroom as much as I'd like. I think the best thing for me to do at the moment is to get into digital printing. I would like something that will enable really nice alt-process digital negatives for cyanotype & van dyke, mainly, but possibly other experiments in the future.
    You mention the Epsons and I would second that opinion. I have an Epson R2400 which does up to A3+ (13" x 19") and the B&W results, when properly calibrated are so good that I have sold a print to a wet darkroom worker.
    Joanna Carter
    Grandes Images

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  4. #4

    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    I would highly recommend the Epson 3800. Great for prints and maybe the best printer out there for making digital negatives. The 2400 give comparable results, but will cost you more in the not-so-long run because of the significantly higher ink costs. Also, the 3800 has both the matt and photo-black inks installed (you will want to use the photo black for negatives). With a 2400 you have to switch out the cartrigdes which eats up ink.
    Kerik Kouklis
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  5. #5

    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Walter, I'll suggest the Epson 3800. It's a 17" wide model that is more expensive than the 13" models, but you will save lots and lots in the long run on ink. If you're wanting to get into digital negatives I would currently avoid anything but an Epson printer as this is what the "digital negative community" has standardized on and gives you access to the QTR printing RIP to make digital negatives.

    All prices are from BHPhoto.com on August 20, 2009 as they have all of the items for sale and are a reputable company to quote.

    I'm also focusing on using matte black ink and ignoring photo black as you say you want to print with mid-weight matte paper and on transparency material--both of these can be printed with just the matte black. If you decide to print on a Photo Black surface or want the ability to do so then the Epson 3800 wins out as it can switch cartridges without using up as much ink as in the R2880. Other brands do a *much* better job with this, but this still isn't a good enough reason to choose something other than Epson for digital negative printing right now.

    Epson R2880 (current top of the line pigment 13" printer from Epson)
    Price: $719.95 (+$200 rebate).
    Comes with 1 set of ink, 8 carts with ~15mL of ink in each cart (I have heard numbers from 12-17, so the average seems to be a good way to go).
    8 ink carts * 15mL of ink = 120mL
    Extra 15mL carts are $12.95.
    So you're getting $103.60 worth of ink with the printer.

    Epson 3800 (current suggested printer for alt process digi-negs by a number of those who teach it)
    Price: $1,145 (+$300 rebate)
    Comes with 1 set of ink, 8 carts with 90mL of ink in each cart.
    8 ink carts * 90mL of ink = 720mL
    Extra 90mL carts are $49.95
    So you're getting $399.60 worth of ink with the printer.

    Comparing prices:
    Epson 3800: $745.40 ($1,145 - $399.60 of included ink, still have the $300 rebate)
    Epson R2880: $616.35 ($719.95 - $103.60 of included ink, still have the $200 rebate)

    Comparing prices with comparable amounts of ink purchased:
    Epson 3800: $1,145 ($1,145, still have the $300 rebate, for 720 mL of ink)
    Epson R2880: $1,238.95 ($719.95, still have the $200 rebate, and comes with 120mL of ink. Must add 5x 15mL ink carts for each color at a cost of 5 * 8 * $12.95 = $519)

    Then on top of that you have to buy 6 Epson R2880 carts to equal 1 Epson 3800 ink cartridge after you've gone through your first 90mL in each color.
    Cost of 90mL of ink.
    Epson 3800: $49.95 (1x 90mL ink cartridge at $49.95)
    Epson R2880: $77.70 (6x 15mL ink cartridge at $12.95)

    I don't expect there to be a quality difference beyond the negligible between these two printers. The Epson 3800 is one of Epson's "Pro" printers which I would expect are built to a higher standard than a lower-tier model like the R2880. The 3800 also gives you the ability to print 17" wide so you can do your 16x20 prints, but the 3800 doesn't let you use roll media. Finally, here are the physical dimensions and weights for each of the printers. The footprint of the 3800 isn't much larger than the R2880, but will need a stronger table

    Epson 3800: 27 x 10 x 15" @ 43.2 lbs
    Epson R2880: 24.3 x 8.4 x 12.7" @ 26.9 lbs

  6. #6

    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerik Kouklis View Post
    Also, the 3800 has both the matt and photo-black inks installed (you will want to use the photo black for negatives).
    I know Ron has matte black in his printer, but that's the joy of QTR, you can avoid the use of the black ink entirely

  7. #7
    Confidently Agnostic!
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    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    I hadn't thought of the 3800; I didn't think there were 17" printers in my price range. Doing 16x20s would sure be sweet! And the ink savings is a good motivation (I think it works out to $0.55 / ml for the 3800 but $0.85 / ml for the smaller cartridges of the 2880).

    Thanks for the suggestions and breakdown.
    Walter Ash
    Vancouver / Victoria BC
    http://ashphotography.ca

  8. #8
    darr's Avatar
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    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Another vote for the Epson R2400.

  9. #9

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    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    I've been comtemplating an LF printer also. What about the 4880. B&H has that at $1788 with a $500 rebate (and $144 shipping ).Without shipping that about $450 more than the 3800. It includes 110 ml of ink (can use 220 ml, $0.51/ml), has the newer vivid magenta (if that matters) and can use roll paper. Min size is an 8x10 vs. a 4x6 for the 3800.

    So does that have a nice dither pattern for digital negs? Are you out there on your own as for workflow? (I'd like the option of digital negatives down the road.) I'd like to print both color and B&W, and I can leave my current 1280 as B&W (MIS).

    Thanks,

    Jay

  10. #10

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    Re: Printer recommendation for nice colour, B&W, and alt-processes

    Quote Originally Posted by walter23 View Post
    I hadn't thought of the 3800; I didn't think there were 17" printers in my price range. Doing 16x20s would sure be sweet! And the ink savings is a good motivation (I think it works out to $0.55 / ml for the 3800 but $0.85 / ml for the smaller cartridges of the 2880).

    Thanks for the suggestions and breakdown.
    As others have said, although initially more expensive, when you consider it comes with $400 of ink inluded, and lower ink costs throughout its life, the 3800 is a much better deal than the 2880.

    I am totally satisfied with mine.

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