Rear movements - would you/do you miss them?

[Bruce Barlow]

I use rear tilt almost every exposure except portraits. Richard Ritter sets up his camera with a little rear tilt already there. I've never had rear rise or rear shift, so I don't miss them. I found that all the extra hardware to do them made the camera less rigid and stable, and those factors win, especially when I have them in front. No difference. But rear tilt is easy, and stable.

Richard learned that front tilt adjusts focus only, while rear movements are "the artist's pallette" that give distortions that are often welcome (making those foreground rocks loom large, for instance). Don't take my word for it: make two pictures, one using fromt tilt to maximize depth of field, then reset front tilt to vertical and use only rear tilt. Compare proofs: what do you see?

I want the most flexibility in any camera. How sad to spend all that money and then find it can't do what I want.

[John Jarosz]

I could (and do) live without rear shift, rise, and fall.

My opinion as well.

John

[Archphoto]

I have been using rear rise in churches when photographing from the choir and would not want to be without it, esp with field camera's and their beds with wide angle vertical shots.

Peter

[Drew Wiley]

For commercial architecture I used a Sinar which has every move imaginable - and I
used every one of them! For personal photography and casual field architecture I use my 8x10 Phillips, which has rear tilt but not swing or rise. Couldn't live without
rear tilt for landscape work, or I'd have coverage issues with certain lenses. Wish I
had swing too once in awhile, but that's a design compromise to keep the camera light yet rigid.

[Ed Richards]

Drew makes a good point - with limited coverage lenses, rear tilt uses less image ciricle than front tilt. Very important with your 58.

[tgtaylor]

Although the Toyo is not among the cameras under consideration, I'd recommend that you take a look (2d?) at the Toyo 45AX as it is a well engineered camera that incorporates most, if not all, the features that you are looking for. Below are its specs:

Base Tilt Front 90° + 15° Rear 90° + 15°
Swing Front 8° + 8° Rear 8° + 8°
Rise / Fall Front 20.5mm / 23.5mm
Rise-Incline Bed / Fall-Drop Bed 84mm / 65mm (1)
Shift Front 7mm + 7mm
Shift Bed Front 40mm + 40mm (1)
General Focusing Front Bed 91.5mm
Minimum Extension 45mm with recessed lens board
70mm with flat lens board
Maximum Extension 321mm with flat lens board
421 with addition of optional 100mm Extension Back
Size (folded) 4.2 x 7.4 x 8.2"
Weight 5.8 lbs.

Minimum Focusing Distances and Magnification
Lens (3) Minimum Distance
(Lens-to-subject) Magnification
Super-Angulon 58/5.6XL 0.23 ft. 4.39x
Nikkor SW 65/4 0.269 ft. 3.89x
Nikkor SW 90/4.5 0.413 ft. 2.51x
Nikkor W 135/5.6 0.767 ft. 1.37x
Nikkor W 150/5.6 0.928 ft. 1.13x
Nikkor W 180/5.6 1.35 ft. 0.78x
Nikkor W 210/5.6 2.005 ft. 0.52x
Nikkor W 240/5.6 3.15 ft. 0.33x
Nikkor M 300/9 15.75 ft. 0.07x
Nikkor T 270/6.3 02.68 ft. 0.39x
Nikkor T 360/8 08.33 ft. 0.13x
Nikkor T 500/11 (2) 13.33 ft. 0.10x

(1) Maximum movement indicated. Varies with focal length used.
(2) Extension back required (no. 1635).
(3) Specifications may vary with other lens manufacturers.

[612tom]

Thanks everyone for your helpful and informed responses, it's much appreciated. Indeed maybe I should be looking to include rear movements. I guess it's like having ABS or Stability Control etc. in your car, one doesn't necessarily use them all the time, but it is nice to know they're there...

So if the SW45 with rear rise only doesn't cut it, then I have to expand my options to the SW45S2 which includes between 8 and 15 degrees of rear tilt depending on the orientation of the back. But am I right in thinking this is a custom model, and finding one is going to be difficult.

What about the 45S? This has shift, swing, rise and tilt at the rear, however the minimum bellows is 60mm on a flat board. I don't want to get into using recessed boards, so if I forgot about wanting to use my 58XL, which has limited coverage for 5x4" anyway (and and can stay in it's helical!), do you think I could use a 72mm or 75mm on the 45S with movements or would the bellows be too tightly compressed and restrict movement?

[Archphoto]

The 72XL has quite a bit of movemnet: I have the lens on a recessed board and use it with a bag-bellows on my Sinar P2.
Even the 75SA would benefit from the use of a bag bellows, mine is, again, on a ercessed board.

Peter

[Ed Richards]

I just read your original post again:

> 72XL (about 24mm equiv) or a 90mm XL

The 90mm XL is a monster lens, both in size and in coverage. If you are serious about it, I am not sure any of the cameras you have listed are going to work, unless you like taking your lens apart everytime you want to mount it on the camera.

Since you have been using a lens with no excess coverage, are you sure you need that much coverage? Given the size of the 90mm XL, I would go for a Sinar F2. You can use the lens on a Technika board and adapter because there is plenty of room for the rear element to go through the adapter hole in the Sinar board. The F2 with bag bellows will handle anything from the 58 - 180 on flat boards with plenty of movements. I never took the bag bellows off my F2. With huge lenses, you might as well have a slightly larger camera that will really let you use them.

[Stephen Lewis]

What about the 45S? This has shift, swing, rise and tilt at the rear, however the minimum bellows is 60mm on a flat board. I don't want to get into using recessed boards, so if I forgot about wanting to use my 58XL, which has limited coverage for 5x4" anyway (and and can stay in it's helical!), do you think I could use a 72mm or 75mm on the 45S with movements or would the bellows be too tightly compressed and restrict movement?

The 45S is available with Ebony's Universal bellows, which have a non-pleated section behind the front standard. This allows use of movements with shorter lenses. Also, the throat on the front standard is very big. Two friends of mine have the 45S, and both regularly use the 72XL without problems. I have the same bellows on my RW45, and don't any problems with my Nikon 70mm. HTH