Need help with C41

[Anthony Lewis]

I am having difficulty getting my head around the C41 process for home use, using Kodak Felxicolor chemicals. I use a Jobo CPP2 process with the 3010 tank – Porta 4x5. I am looking for one shot process – not replenishment – which the data sheet states is possible. I have read Kodak Z131 data sheet which makes sense to a point. For Rotary Tube processors this is exactly what the data sheet states:

KODAK FLEXICOLOR Developer
Use this developer in unreplenished systems. No starter is
needed.
KODAK FLEXICOLOR Bleach III
Use this bleach full-strength in small tanks and tube-type
processors without replenishment.
KODAK FLEXICOLOR Fixer and Replenisher
Mix according to the directions for use as a working solution.
KODAK FLEXICOLOR Stabilizer III
Mix according to the directions for use as a working solution.

This looks very simple at first glance, but the trouble is there is no such thing as ‘Flexicolor Developer’ as far as I can tell. In their data sheet Kodak list a ‘Flexicolor Developer Replenisher’. Is this the same item as the Flexicolor Developer, except you just use it as a one shot solution?

I read an identical thread on APUG where the author was asking for others to list exactly what chemicals they use. In four pages he did not get one definitve answer but lots of advice. For instance someone stated that you have to use Starter otherwise you will get contrasty results, but Z131 clearly states you do not use the Starter.

Also Kodak only appears to make a Flexicolor Bleach III Replenisher. Is this exactly the same as just Flexicolor Bleach III, again, I just use it as a one shot solution?

I would appreciate it very much if others would clear up my confusion and to list exactly what process / chemicals they use, and give me any other advice?

[RPNugent]

Not sure if this thread from Photonet is correct but given Adorama doesn't show the one gallon developer anymore and I used to order it from them regularly I think it is. Bottom line, no more one gallon developer is made but a new 2 liter kit is made. Haven't found a source yet.

http://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00N49T

http://www.nonsolonews.net/thread-79...ll-availab.htm

[domaz]

APUG has many threads about this- the bottom line seems to be get whatever Kodak chemistry you can and get the rest from Trebla.

[erie patsellis]

Anthony,
the C41 developer/replenisher is a 5 gal mix, you can mix as little or as much as you want, you do need the starter, but overall, it's about the least expensive way to go.

I'd suggest capturing bleach and aerating/regenerating, as the cost is pretty high and bleaching continues to completion, you can't over bleach (within reason, of course).

C41 fixer is as cheap as it gets, many use it for B&W work as well.

[Anthony Lewis]

I appreciate your replies but I am confused already, as others have asked similar threads on APUG. I am trying to follow Kodaks Z131 - specifically for rotary tube processes - one shot. It clearly states, as I quoted above, that I use Flexicolor Developer, and 'No Starter is required". Who should I believe, Z131, or your practical advice?

But at the start of Z131 it lists all the chemicals available in the Flexicolor range. This sheet does not list a product called Flexiclor Developer, but a product called Flexicolor Developer Replenisher. Are these the same items?

BUT then Changs Photo lists an item just called "Flexicolor Developer - no starter required." Why does not Kodak list this product as being available in the product range, but then specify it in the rotary tube process? - very ODD. This is why I, and others, are confused. And I have not got past the Developer stage.

If I read any data sheets on B&W processing the exact products are listed with capacities, temps and times. This does not happen with C41 literature and is probably the reason why everyone gives differing advice. Hopefully I can be enlightened!

[erie patsellis]

I can understand your confusion, it's not that clear, just to be certain you have all the relevant documents, I have a copy of Z131 I found that also has all the ancillary information with it, I think Don Bryant originally combined them. You can find it at www.eriepatsellis.com/z131.pdf . In that document, on p 1-5, it lists the chemistry for an unreplenished system. I personally use developer/replenisher with starter, cost wise it's a whole lot cheaper.

In the above document, you'll also find information for mixing less than full quantities of developer as well. Any of the developers will work, just each is tailored to a specific method of mixing/replenishment. One of the reasons you won't find capacity information is simple, C41 was designed as a replenished system primarily. There are capacity tables on p. 3-5, though I've found them to be overly conservative for hobbyist use. If you follow that table, you should have sensiometrically correct processing every time with reasonable consistency. If you have control strips and a densitometer, it's trivial to establish an replenishment regimen, if you process enough film to maintain process stability. Otherwise, use developer (or dev/repleniser and starter) and fix one shot, aerate/rejuvenate bleach as it's the most expensive chemistry (~$26 a gallon). I know people with C41 lines that have been aerating and rejuvenating bleach for years, and it's still just fine.

Temps and times are specified in Z131, and are standardized for all films. (3:15 dev @100F +:30 for one stop push. Where things get different depends on what bleach and fix you use, standard Flexicolor bleach is 6:30, some of the others (AR or SM) may be different. For sink line, small tank or rotary processing, see section 3 for process steps. If your work isn't terribly color critical, I would suggest starting out replenishing, even without a densitometer, a hygrometer (measures specific gravity of liquids, available at any wine or beer making store inexpensively) will help you determine if you are over or under replenishing.

Feel free to ask more questions, it took me a while to get my head wrapped around it as well.

erie

[Bruce Watson]

Why does not Kodak list this product as being available in the product range, but then specify it in the rotary tube process? - very ODD. This is why I, and others, are confused. And I have not got past the Developer stage.

When in doubt, call Kodak and ask. 800.242.2424 x19 (Kodak professional). If they don't know right away, they can find out for you. They still have one of the best help desks around.

[dng88]

Sorry to ask question and I am on the same starting issue -- what bother me most is though whether to get the stabilizer ... There are chemical (formaldye?) that is not nice and someone suggested to use others as in other processes. But in rotatary processor it still list this. Bug me a but as only e6 prebleach has that and the quantity is much lower than stabolizer.

[tgtaylor]

Sorry to ask question and I am on the same starting issue -- what bother me most is though whether to get the stabilizer ... There are chemical (formaldye?) that is not nice and someone suggested to use others as in other processes. But in rotatary processor it still list this. Bug me a but as only e6 prebleach has that and the quantity is much lower than stabolizer.

Get and use the stablizer. It's cheap (about $1 a liter solution) and you use 9ml/liter. You can reuse the bleach, fix and stablizer - check the Kodak pub for the limits on reuse.