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Thread: LF Made Up Of Pro's Or Amateurs?

  1. #31

    Join Date
    Jun 2000
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    Redondo Beach
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    547

    LF Made Up Of Pro's Or Amateurs?

    Thank you for the clarification. I've looked at the work of some Professionals and remarked to myself 'it doesn't get any better'. I've driven down the street and saw images that were on billboards that I would throw in the trash if I had done them.

    There's the whole gamut from somebody with your qualifications to a Professional who's self taught. There's the whole gamut which runs from the commericial photographer to the photographer who make a decent living shooting weddings.

    Photography isn't a team sport, it's an individual thing execution wise, and pretty much one individual, one vision. My point is that there's really no way to tell what the terms 'Professional' or 'Advanced Amateur' mean, or what they refer to except on an individual, case by case basis. The terms in and of themselves are generalizations.

    If I look at the work of someone that shows that individual to be gifted in terms of imagination, or creativity, or inspiration and so forth when it comes to their images and I come to understand that that individual did that image for its own sake I consider that to be the work of an Advanced Amateur.

    Actually notwithstanding the current dialogue, I like a term which is inclusive of all of us, which is the term 'personal work'. You asked me a question which I will answer by asking you a question, what do you think of your personal work? Understand this is by definition work done under no deadline and no pressure except that which you would impose on yourself, so whats going to come through is your talent and personal vision.

    Granted this work may be better as you gain experience as you have honed your skills to a high degree, because of your professional discipline, but you had that potential before you turned Professional.

    You may be farther down the road than many Advanced Amateurs but they are are on the same road whether they are ahead of you or behind you, at least to me.

    Good photographers, pretty good photographers, great photographers, gifted photographers with a lot of potential, gifted photographers who refined their skills through the pursuit of a professinal career, all of them, to me, belong in the same room, or on on the same road.

    I have 'sweated bullets' doing the portraits of people who prefaced the job with their disgust for the work of some pretty good photographers whom they felt 'loused up' their portraits. I won't do a portrait of people who have unrealistic expectations and that's not what I'm talking about. I have caressed short noses, flat noses, long noses, noses veering off the the left, noses veering off the the right, bulging eyes, sunken eyes, cross eyes, round faces, angular faces, lopsided faces, with every lighting scheme know to man, along with every trick I know; believe me I know about pressure.

    I am a better and a more refined photographer than I was several years ago, because of the discipline I've developed doing portraits. It simply makes you better having to think things through. I just don't think its a good idea to separate myself from somebody who is on the same road as I am, but who is just a little bit behind me. I don't think it necessary to make that distinction.
    Jonathan Brewer

    www.imageandartifact.bz

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Mar 1998
    Posts
    1,972

    LF Made Up Of Pro's Or Amateurs?

    Two points:

    1.)James: the word is spelled: A-M-A-T-E-U-R ! If you learn nothing else from this thread...

    2.)"Photography isn't a team sport, it's an individual thing execution wise, and pretty much one individual, one vision." I hate to pop your bubble butprofessional commercial photography, like filmmaking, is definitely a team effort. The role of a professional photographer in a professional setting is more akin to that of a film director or a director of photography on a movie set than iit is to the lone painter in some chilly Parisian attic. This is true as much for Richard Avedon and Irving Penn and Annie Leibovitz and David Meunch or Ansel Adams as it is for some kid fresh out of an apprenticeship or art school. We are there to express our vision in the best of circumstances, or bring to creative life a client's skrtch in the usual circumstances, but it is always a team effort. This is true even in many self assigned projects as well.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    522

    LF Made Up Of Pro's Or Amateurs?

    So, what is this about again???

    James, I hesitated to repsond to your question because this thread has gone all over the place. In the end, I don't think it matters who uses what, but in regards to large format, let's just hope enough of one group (or both) keeps on buying sheet film so the manufacturers keep it in production...FWIW, I make my living in professional photography, although some of what I do I'm sure you all would find pretty boring. I use a 4x5 more on the job, than off, although I have my own large format gear.

    Jonathan, not that I want to get you riled up any more, but I agree with Ellis as well on the team-thing statement...unless you're in some one-man operation, professional photography IS very much a team effort...from my own experience at work, probably 50% of the shots or more are a "team effort" in some manner.

    My definiton of a professional is simple, deriving your income from the work you do. As for art, just go out and do your thing, let somebody else label it whatever they want....it hardly matters what anyone else thinks of it, as long as you're comfortable with your own work.

  4. #34

    LF Made Up Of Pro's Or Amateurs?

    Mr. Brewer: I appreciate your post. In the early 80's I got a contract to shoot a national ad for Borg Warner the manufacturer of Cycolac, (sp) that ultra tough plastic. The art director arrived at the Denver Stapleton Airport, the night before. We talked and agreed to meet at the SE Marriott hotel lobby at 3:00 AM. The model, a male, was to be there too. We met and drove to the top of Vail Pass, and met the two engineers from Arctic Cat Snowmobiles. at 5:00 AM. We got on the snowmobiles, with photo gear and two snow trailers, and headed up to the top of Shrine Pass, above Vail, at near 13,000'. The model was taught how to drive the Arctic Cat...and it wasn't working out picture wise. I asked the New York art director what he was illustrating. He replied, the 'belly-pan' underneath the engine of the snowmobile. I took a broken twig, and helped him art direct the shot in the frozen snow...with the technical help of the chief engineer from Arctic Cat. We decided that the snowmobile would decend down a deep valley and he would race up the hill at full speed, breaking a snow cornice on top of the ridge where I would be dug in at ground level (with my army surplus GI shovel)...and shoot the snowmobile in mid air, with belly pan exposed, against the sunrise over the Ten Mile Range. After two tries, I could see that the Nikon motor drives could not cope with such fast action. (Client specified 35mm Kodachrome). I also decided that I had to shoot with a 20mm wide angle on my Nikons (4)...and shot semi-auto. After the sun broke the horizon we started and made 26 runs. Each time the snowmobile would explode through the snow cornice an be airborne and land on my right arm and knock the Nikon out of my right hand and pin my parka into the snow. I had to be that close and under the snowmobile. Out of all those runs, we got two great shots, which ran, 'double-truck' in TIME, NEWSWEEK and many other magazines. Sounds great, right? Mr. Brewer, Portrait Photographer, (and sounding like a good one).....you have a much harder job than I did on that sunrise shot on Shrine Pass. Dealing with the personal egos in portrait photography is a much harder job and you have my admiration and respect. Richard Boulware - Denver. P.S. Got the New York AD back to Denver and on a noon plane to return to NYC. Went out and had a late lunch, and a few beers. Dropped the film off at the lab and went home for a long nap. Just another day in the life of a professional shooter. (:-)

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Redondo Beach
    Posts
    547

    LF Made Up Of Pro's Or Amateurs?

    My bubble pops easily. I can certainly appreciate the team effort required for the complexity of some of the above mentioned shots. Some of them sound like torture.

    I was talking more along the lines of my operation but I can see where that doesn't apply to the types of shots some of you are doing.
    Jonathan Brewer

    www.imageandartifact.bz

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