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Thread: post alternative techniques

  1. #201

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by kev curry View Post
    Hi Emil, quick question... what kind of paper are you using for painting your liquid emulsion on to?
    Hi Kev.
    I use a not too expensive, but high quality paper of 340grams.
    "Zerkall" it is called - German brand.

    It os not a watercolour paper, but a paper for use in classic etching/printing techniques.

    Really nice - easy to work with, and as said - worth the money, which isn't too high..

    (found their website, but I am buying from a danish store)

    I think I found the paper, and it says:

    Mould Made Printmaking Paper, wove

    340 g/sqm, ca. 50 x 68 cm lg, rough surface, cotton content
    Nr. 7314/1: off white

    Applications: silkscreen, hand lithography, offset, etching,
    embossing, block printing, letterpress printing, pastel, pencil

    (http://www.zerkall.com/English/Paper...apiere.E1.html)


    http://www.zerkall.com/English/Info.E.html
    Last edited by gandolfi; 26-Jul-2009 at 10:16. Reason: more info

  2. #202

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfi View Post
    this is absolutely STUNNING!
    I can't see any brush strokes or anything else, that gives the technique away..

    And it is glowing!!
    Gandolfi,

    I don't prefer to show coating/brush marks on my prints. I mask the paper with tape when coating and mask the negative to prevent the over coating from exposing.

    When I mount gum prints I'll trim the brush marks and drymount the print to another sheet of art paper.

    I've never understood the allure of showing coating/brush marks on the final print.

    I even know people who make pains taking efforts to produce "attractive" brush marks. Just not my 'thang'!

    Don
    Last edited by D. Bryant; 26-Jul-2009 at 11:05. Reason: Spelling

  3. #203
    kev curry's Avatar
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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Thanks for the links Emil I'll check them out. Its good to know that paper suitable for etchings etc is usable.

  4. #204

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Watkins View Post
    Big digital "negatives" are not Large Format, never were, never will be.
    Just my opinion,
    Pete.
    Pete since that is your opinion I'll respect that but is a print from an enlarged negative disqualified also if the original was made with a large format camera?

    The attached cyanotype was printed from an enlarged film negative. I've used enlarged film negatives and digital negatives and as far as the quality of the end print is concerned I see little if any difference.

    Mortensen and others manipulated thier negatives extensively in some cases. LeGray <sp?> added clouds from other negatives to create the final print yet if someone does that with PS they are somehow considered to be cheating or they are considered to be a hack. I don't get that attitude. It's all about creativity in my mind. Just because one of the sainted greats didn't manipulate their work why does that exclude us working in LF from doing so now. Look at Gandolfis work - a little or a lot of wabi-sabi can go a long way to augmenting ones vision. And even if you can't tell if the manipulation is done by hand or PS who cares? I'm not including documentary or reportage here. Just my view.

    BTW, the color of this cyanotype isn't accurate. The print was so large it had to scanned in sections and stitched back together.

    Don Bryant
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CyanoGreenhouse.jpg  
    Last edited by D. Bryant; 26-Jul-2009 at 11:33. Reason: Spelling

  5. #205

    Re: post alternative techniques

    Mercy that's nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by D. Bryant View Post
    Ziatype from 4x5 negative

  6. #206

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by D. Bryant View Post
    Pete since that is your opinion I'll respect that but is a print from an enlarged negative disqualified also if the original was made with a large format camera?
    how about a print from an enlarged digital negative, captured using a scanning back on a 4x5 view camera

  7. #207

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by D. Bryant View Post
    Gold toned kallitype from 8x10 in camera negative (cropped with ruby-lith)
    love everything you've posted here Don, but this one is spectacular

  8. #208

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    love everything you've posted here Don, but this one is spectacular
    Agree with Jim, Excellent work Don.

  9. #209

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Pedersen View Post
    Kirk, Keep up the good work you have provided since you became a moderator on this forum.
    If capture of the original photo was digital or something other than what most agree is Large Format it should only be displayed in the Lounge as the rules are now.
    It is unfortunate that some have desided to change the work flow to include other formats than what this Forum is about and then expect the forum to mold into something that it was not meant to be.
    A negative whether it is created digitally or in the wet darkroom does not make it Large Format unless the capture was with a large format camera in the first place.

    My opinion has nothing to do with the quality of work from both Sandy's and others work that is simply outstanding, this is just my opinion on the principle of this Forum.
    The Large Format Forum can soon enough be flooded with anything but Large Format Images if everybody choose to put more importance on own ambitions than to continue to keep this place a unique outlet for a little but important group of people who share the the love for large in camera negatives.

    Jan
    It is important to understand that alternative printmaking does not belong to any type of photography, be it small format, medium format, or large format, nor can it be classified by its analogue or digital origins. Rather, it is a marriage of the old and new with no disciplinary borders. Alternative photography may involve equally pin hole and zone plates on digital and large format cameras, and the sharpest lenses on 35mm and ULF formats. As a long time alternative printer (from the 1980s) the idea that discussions on alternative printing should be limited by type (digital or analogue) or format (small format versus large format) of the taking camera is to me utterly absurd. I don’t accept these limitations for my work, and I am sure that my feelings are shared by the great majority of persons who do high quality work with alternative printmaking.

    I have no issue with the general guidelines on the LF forum regarding the prohibition in the galleries and discussion forums of work done with small format cameras, both digital and film. That is to be expected.

    However, alternative print making is different from general photography in at least two very important ways whenever it involves digital processing, either when the capture is with film and a scan is made of the film, or when the capture is with a digital camera. First, with alternative printing, whether original capture is made in the camera or with a film scan. it is only an intermediate step. In order to make an alternative print you must first learn how to take this file and make from it a digital negative of the same size needed for the final contact print. It is only at this point that you are back to the same base line with direct capture with LF film. And making good digital negatives is pretty much an art to it self, as most people who have worked this way know very well.

    The second way in which alternative printing is totally different from printing with digital files on inkjet printers is in the process itself. When printing digitally, one can take the image file, adjust it a bit, and print directly with an inkjet printer. It is a very fast and direct method of making a print. With alternative printing, one must 1) first learn to make the digital negative, and 2) learn control of a very complicated wet processing system. The time required for each step is on the order of hours, even after one has acquired mastery of both steps.

    You are free to disagree with my point of view, as you like, but my credentials as an alternative printer are there for you to see. I have many articles on the web on alternative printing, a book on printing with carbon transfer, and I have exhibited my work widely. I have printed with ULF in-camera negatives (see p 203 of the second edition of Dick Arentz’ book Platinum and Palladium Printing, 2nd edition for a palladium print printed directly from a 20X24" in-camera negative, directly from LF negatives and from digital negatives made of scans of large format negatives, from digital negatives made from scans of medium format film, and from digital negatives made from digital files of DSLR and another direct digital capture.

    Finally, it really bothers me that some people claim that I don’t want to play by the rules. I have made over 2800 informative and opinion posts to this forum over the past six or seven years and all of them were made in accordance with the rules. However, when rules don’t make any sense to me please do not expect me to stand by blindly and ignore the absurdity.

    Thanks for reading.

    Sandy King

  10. #210

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    Re: post alternative techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    In order to make an alternative print you must first learn how to take this file and make from it a digital negative of the same size needed for the final contact print. It is only at this point that you are back to the same base line with direct capture with LF film. And making good digital negatives is pretty much an art to it self, as most people who have worked this way know very well.

    ...... With alternative printing, one must 1) first learn to make the digital negative, and 2) learn control of a very complicated wet processing system. The time required for each step is on the order of hours, even after one has acquired mastery of both steps.
    Sandy: not that I am not agreeing with you, but sitting here, reading this, I get confused (I do that easily...)

    When you're talking about "alternative printing", you seem to equal this only to contact printing. (?)
    I do know, that most(?) of the alternative printing techniques requires a large negative (and here I agree with you), BUT I also know it is not all.

    that's one of the reasons bromoil was invented... to be able to make a darkroom print in a normal way, using any negative format, and then turn that into a bromoil..

    I have also asked twice now (not to you but in this thread), whether using liquid emulsion is regarded as an alternative printing technique. (no answer yet). Here the same story.

    All in all: do you think that a technique that falls under the category "alternative printing" (I use the term alternative technique) has to be contact printing only?

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