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Thread: Black and White Printing

  1. #21

    Re: Black and White Printing

    Epson won an ITC ruling some time ago that directly effects the ability for 3rd party inks to be sold in the USA. I'm not sure how MIS may be getting around this, but Epson already took Media Street to court. Therefore, InkjetMall only sells their inks as bulk systems with CIS, or large format printer carts, which were not effected by the ruling (though I hear one is still pending related to that too). Pre-filled desktop cartridges, which were a staple of their business, had to be dropped to avoid spending the rest of the decade in courts...
    You can buy their bottles, and fill empty carts you can get from MIS, but a CIS is much less hassle.
    Tyler

  2. #22

    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Re: Black and White Printing

    I'm using a Canon iPF5000 and I like the b&w prints. The printer has a reputation for gloss differential, but I only find this on RC papers.
    My current favorite is Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, a little warm with Canon inks, but not as warm as Protriga Rapid the old AGFA warmtone paper (Ilford profile), Harman Baryta Gloss is excellent (Booksmart Profile), as is Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta (borrowed profile have to get one made). For a matte paper I really like Parrot Digigraphics Angelica Smooth White.
    What I have liked about scanning and digital printing is that I had several images that had air bells or had gotten scratched that I can easily retouch and print.

    Tom

  3. #23
    Peter vg
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
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    26

    Re: Black and White Printing

    Over the years I have tried everything, but over the last couple years I have settled on just using my Epson 4000 and QTR. Results are amazing. I work my prints using cheap Epson Heavy Weight Matte Paper (Matte black ink) and then do my final prints on Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta (Photo black ink). I will a final proof with Epson Premium Luster (cheap) before printing on the Baryta paper. Baryta paper is the key - it is AMAZING. The key is to get a printer that switches between matte black and photo black inks. I guess that means something like the Epson 3800.

    I tried various dedicated B&W inksets over the years, but using QTR with color inksets I get such good results I just can't be bothered. Using color inksets has the advantage that you could actually make a color print (gasp!!).

    Good Luck,
    Peter

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vancouver Island
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    421

    Re: Black and White Printing

    Wasting paper ... oh yeah. I have an Epson 3800 and I'm printing B&W from 4x5 scans.

    The ABW in the Epson driver does a very nice job and I can get some good prints on both matt and gloss paper.

    Just started with QTR and the ability to separate midtones is quite a bit better than the ABW driver. I have a photo of my motorcycle and the seat has a pebble that is just sweet with the QTR but barely visible with ABW.

    A lot more paper will be wasted but I'm starting to get some good prints.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Vancouver Island
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    421

    Re: Black and White Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by catshaver View Post
    I realize that you are interested in printing from an inkjet. It seems that there's a lot of time, effort and expense involved in attempting to duplicate real silver and platinum prints. From what I have seen, they all fall short. If you are shooting 8x10, you could set up a very small contact print/wet darkroom operation in a closet, laundry room, bathroom etc.
    I printed silver for many years. I really like my Epson. Like anything subtle it takes some fooling with to get it under control. If you have never seen nice inkjet output ... you have no idea.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Southern California
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    Re: Black and White Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna Carter View Post
    From my experience, forget all the old printers, special ink sets and RIP software; they just aren't necessaary when you can buy an Epson K3 printer and, once it is profiled for your paper, use it straight with the Epson driver and get superb B&W prints.
    And you will loan us the money for these wonderful new printers?

    Sometimes we need to work with what we have. For me it's an old printer and inksets, that is, until I can get into a darkroom.

    Brian

  7. #27
    Moderator
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    Apr 2009
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    Northern Virginia
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    Re: Black and White Printing

    It would appear to me that the K7 continuous ink system for the 2200 from Cone is $508, including the system, the inks, and the $50 shareware contribution for the Quadtone RIP.

    I just paid $900 for a factory refurbed 3800, including $500 worth of ink.

    The black-and-white prints from it are superb, with deep, rich blacks and good scale. The only issue I have is that the ink is more reflective than the glossy paper I prefer, so areas with blown-out highlights will not be as reflective as areas where some ink was laid down. I can usually pull the curves in on the ends so that the highlights don't reach above about 245 and that minimizes that issue. I never really like having no ink at all on the paper, just as I never really liked having no density at all in the highlights on silver prints. It's not noticeable for the occasional specular highlight, or if the print is behind glass. The ABW driver for the 3800 provides the ability to tone the print. I'm really impressed by the results.

    I'm sure the dedicated multi-black systems work beautifully, but it is a big effort to set them up. If black and white is only one aspect of your work, you'll have to get another printer in any case.

    Rick "who also prints in color" Denney

  8. #28
    Greg Lockrey's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
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    Temperance, MI
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    1,957

    Re: Black and White Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna Carter View Post
    From my experience, forget all the old printers, special ink sets and RIP software; they just aren't necessaary when you can buy an Epson K3 printer and, once it is profiled for your paper, use it straight with the Epson driver and get superb B&W prints.
    I tend to agree.... why make a lot of work for yourself.
    Greg Lockrey

    Wealth is a state of mind.
    Money is just a tool.
    Happiness is pedaling +25mph on a smooth road.



  9. #29
    Greg Lockrey's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
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    Re: Black and White Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by bvstaples View Post
    And you will loan us the money for these wonderful new printers?

    Sometimes we need to work with what we have. For me it's an old printer and inksets, that is, until I can get into a darkroom.

    Brian
    Sometimes it's more expensive to make those old printers with all those expensive RIPs and inksets to catch up to the new printers that really aren't that expensive to begin with.

    FWIW, I printed commercially in a wet darkroom for about 30 years when about 10-12 years ago I got turned on to working in the "daylight" and never looked back. IMO the papers that are available today aren't close to the papers we had back then. Digital printing is just getting better everyday.
    Greg Lockrey

    Wealth is a state of mind.
    Money is just a tool.
    Happiness is pedaling +25mph on a smooth road.



  10. #30
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Aug 2004
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    brooklyn, nyc
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    5,421

    Re: Black and White Printing

    I have an older epson printer (1280) with 4-color, all carbon pigment piezotone inks from Cone, fed from a CIS. The print quality is mind blowing.

    But it's a fussy setup, and I'd recommend shelling out for a higher quality printer ... one that's designed for serious production work. The cheaper printers like mine seem more prone to paper feed issues and possibly also clogging issues. And when I finally do retire this thing (which will likely be a loud, messy process, involving a hammer), I'll have to start from scratch with a new profile.

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