Shen Hao PTB45, anyone here actually using it?

[Arthur Fleischmann]

Gene you're right, duty and tax is what makes the Chamonix quite a bit more expensive for me. Camera body + lensboard + shipping = 918 USD, to that I'd have to add 4,2% import duty = 956 USD, and to that amount 20% "import VAT" = 1,147 USD. In Euros this is about 860.

On the other hand, the Euro-Pound exchange rate is quite favourable at the moment if you live in a Euro-country, that's why 425 GBP equals only 472 EUR (No duty within the European Union). Ok, to this amount I'd have to add shipping but I assume it won't be that much from the UK to Austria (certainly less than from China), and I don't know if a lens board is included in the price.

Hmmm... I just notice I obviously made some errors in my initial post calculations or now... or the exchange rates changed since*. Anyway, what I'm trying to illustrate here is that basically the Shen Hao is really quite a bit cheaper for me than the Chamonix (in fact almost half the price). lilmsmaggie may be right in that there are several re-sellers of Shen Hao equipment (for Chamonix I was only able to find one dealer in France but they are quite expensive, 975 Euros + shipping for the Chamonix) so accessories might be easier to obtain, but frankly this is not a major concern for me. As suggested by Barry I plan to start without many accesories and only one lens, I think I'll get a 150mm which should be a rough equivalent to the 80mm lens which I use on my Mamiya 7.

What it comes down to is I like the "looks" of the Chamonix a bit better and many people seem to love that camera so one could say it's a tried and tested model, while the Shen Hao is a new model (it is not even featured on the official Shen Hao website) and I have not read any reports yet by people who actually use the camera. But I think it's really a bargain and from what Scott wrote I gather there is no major drawback to it that would justify to pay the higher price for the Chamonix. I also figure should I get the Shen Hao and truly hate it (I highly doubt it) I could probably sell it again without much of a loss.

*) Edit: I forgot I'd have to pay 15% UK VAT when ordering from there, so the price for the Shen Hao including VAT would actually be 488 GBP which equals 542 EUR (+ shipping).

[catshaver]

Taking a very close look at the Shen hao, with Jeff at Badger Graphic, he and I surmised that the hardware for both the Chamonix and Shen Hao very likely come from the same subcontractors. If you take a look, they are identical (knobs, rails, standards, etc.) The differences come down to personal issues such as accessories, wood fabrication quality, the carbon fiber base on the Chamonix and then of course - service after the sale. I like the Chamonix a great deal, it's dealing directly with the Chinese factory as a consumer, not a dealer that gives me pause.

[Peter J. De Smidt]

I owned a Chamonix for awhile, and like Scott I handled a Shen Hao at Badger. I really didn't detect any difference in rigidity, and the "carbon fiber" ground glass protector isn't much of a benefit. The Chamonix's bed might be more stable regarding humidity changes over the years. It's hard to tell. Both are pretty nice cameras.

[BarryS]

That's a big difference in price and although I think the Cham is wonderful, I'd get the Shen Hao in the same situation. You need to have money left to buy film and other incidentals.

[lilmsmaggie]

That's a big difference in price and although I think the Cham is wonderful, I'd get the Shen Hao in the same situation. You need to have money left to buy film and other incidentals.

AND a lens for catching those photons--Hear hear!

[thafred]

I´m in the same boat as Arthur, fell in love with the Chamonix but the price of the Shen Hao is very tempting (I too life in Austria so the price difference is as Arthur explained/calculated)

Like Catshaver I also think that the metal Hardware might come from the same chinese factory for both cameras, after all they look identical down to the spirit levels. the only difference is the design of the back and the wood base. (I don´t think that the base will cut into the performance..humidity would affect the wooden standard or back more and would be the same problem for both cameras I think?)

a few questions regarding the PTB still remain and I hope to find some answers from you.

Is the back of the same design as the HZ 45? Is there a groundglas protector available from Shen Hao or better yet a foldable GG hood? Can I use accesoires for the HZ45 on the PTB? (nether RW nor Badger list those on the PTB sites)
Does anyone know if the PTB is equiped with a fresnel lens?
Are the bellows as flexible as on the Chamonix? the 45N can be used with a 65mm lens and a little shift with the standard bellows, will this work on the Shen Hao?

I´ve been shooting Graflexes for a year now and I´m looking forward to my first real field camera, Scheimpflug here I come
best
fred

[vwizz]

Hi!
I did my first pictures today with my new Shen Hao PTB-45.
As a owner of a Chamonix 45N-1, here are my first impressions:

-the two bottom screws to move/swing the rear standard are not as good as on the Chamonix: on the 45N-1 there are 4 as a matter of fact: two on top connected to two on the bottom. On the Shen hao there are only two on top, and you need to push them hard from under (in the metal slit) if you want them to slide towards front/back. The same movement is much smoother/easier/precise on the Chamonix. That said, the amount of movement available is similar.
-the bottom screw that tightens the front standard cannot fix it 100% on the Shen Hao. It is normally not an issue though.
-on the center plate used for focusing, there is one more hole on the chamonix, so you can fix the front standard further behind. There are only three holes on the shen hao, so for wide angle you definitely need to move the rear standard towards front.
-the back spring is much stronger on the shen hao: you need more force to insert a chassis inside. On the chamonix it is extremely smooth. Each has a drawback: in vertical position, the chamonix cannot support the weight of a Polaroid 545 back (it slides down so you need to holde it). On the shen hao, the amount of effort to insert a chassis made me lose a fine setup I had (OK, i had a small mini-berlebach tripod and its feet were sliding on the surface under it)
-one drawback on the chamonix (already mentionned here): the top metal teeth holding the lens plate are rather big as in some cases, if the lens plate is thick, they might not secure the plate so you have to pay attention and make sure they are positionned right.
-on my shen hao I couldn't fit in two shen hao lens plates (size 1) as they were slightly too high (or the dimension on the front standard was too small). As a result i had to buy a technika #1 lens plate.

Apart from that, they are very similar, but I clearly sense the better finish and finer tolerances of the Chamonix. All the movements have constant smoothness on the 45N-1 while there are some hard points on the Shen Hao. The tolerances of the overall assembly are as well more precise on the Chamonix.
The bottom of the 45n-1 is as well more sturdy and the carbon parts are very nice. the Shen Hao bottom part is much thinner. but it shouldn't be an issue as it still seems very stiff.

Note as well that the Chamonix can be fitted with a universal bellow directly from factory (I need to buy a wide angle bellows for the shen hao, clearly, as I could already feel some restraints with my 90/4.5 Grandagon N). plus the chamonix comes with Fresnel which I do fine quite nice.

A couple of other tiny details: the bubble levels look better on the shen hao (but i remember Hugo aying that they would get a new supplier for the chamonix) and the rubber around the screws feels nice. The gradations on the bottom plate and front standard might be as well clearer on the Shen hao (even if I never use them).

All in all they are two wonderful lovely little cameras, and very light!. The Chamonix finish is clearly better the Shen Hao and it feels smoother and more precise, but functionnaly both cameras should achieve same performance.

Personnaly, I took the Shen Hao to start collodion wet plate as I wanted something cheap but still with large possibilities for movements. It is a great camera, and even though it has imperfections it feels great and I kind of fell in love with it. It looks a bit more "vintage", not as "high tech" as the Chamonix.. I can't wait shooting my first wet plates with it

V

[thafred]

Thank you for the interesting write up!! good to hear opinions from a user that shoots with both

I also have my PTB allready and find all the remarks you made on point, cannot compare it to a chamonix thou.

one thing I found out regarding the smoothness, it helps tremendously to put a little lube on the worm drive (I used bicycle grease)...the focus operation did improve by that.

My PTB has four holes for the front standard, yours has three? interesting!

I was annoyed with the QC on my Shen hao since they installed one of the rear standard locks wrong (couldn´t slide it out and also the 90° position was definately out)! also the bellows was installed upside down. (monday morning specimen?)...not hard to fix but I´m not happy having to work on a brand new camera to get it operational..

if I had the money I´d definately go for a chamonix. for the price I payed on the shen, it was no bad choice thou

oh, good luck with the wet plate shooting!!! please show your results as soon as you have any!
best
fred

[vwizz]

it helps tremendously to put a little lube on the worm drive (I used bicycle grease)

Hi! I will try that when I get back home, I'll try to put some on the side rails too

Concerning the 3 holes, mine is similar to the main picture there:
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product...2336&PT_ID=437
Funnily on the side pictures there are 5 holes!!
Plus mine has a graduated scale on the right side of the front standard and three bubble levels, which are not seen here...
I guess they had different production batches?
Mine is actually very recent as I had it directly from the Shanghai store two days ago.
One thing I noticed though: it did not appear on their current Chinese price list and the camera was not in the store the first day I came in, so I had to ask for one and they brought it the day after (the lady in the store didn't even know about the model as a matter of fact, she had to call her boss)...


Anyway, still a great camera
Best Regards,
V

[Archphoto]

It shure is a funny little camera ! Fell in love with it.
I have already a Shen Hao HZH45IIA, so this one can wait for a while....

That 3 way bubble is an option to the camera, I will have to find a place for it on my Shen Hao.

Peter