Copal shutter (Fujinon) "soft" time dial... a concern?

[ignis075]

Hi all,
I am a photographer of many years but completely new to LF photography and lenses. I'm currently in the process of buying the various equipment I'll need to begin my venture into the medium (Chamonix 4x5, lenses, etc.).

The first lens I purchased was a Fujinon NW 150mm 5.6, from KEH, in very nice condition with a Copal 0 shutter. This is a fairly common 150mm lens and I'm guessing that some users here have the exact same lens, or have used it before.

I had no reason to "doubt" the condition of this lens... until I received my second lens today, a 300mm Fujinon C 8.5 which I purchased from Ben Syverson, a member of this forum. In addition to having essentially perfect glass, this 300mm lens has a CRISP shutter speed dial, and it *clicks* distinctly from value to value.

And now I sample the 150mm lens which seems to have a somewhat "soft" speed dial. While it basically clicks into each increment, it's not nearly as crisp as the 300mm... almost like it takes a fine touch to settle into the desired time setting. By comparison, the 300mm shutter is superior in feel.

Again, I don't have *any* previous experience with LF lenses or Copal shutters, but is this anything I should be concerned about? Is it possible that the "soft" time dial on the 150mm has been used excessively, even if the front and rear lens elements are perfect? Am I completely over-concerned here?

Hopefully some members here can provide some advice. If the 150mm has a heavily-used shutter with mint glass, I want to take up the issue with KEH and perhaps send it back for a refund... I'm probably too concerned, but as we all know, photography is an expensive art and I want quality for my money!

Thanks in advance,
Brent Sorrentino

[Peter K]

Brent, there are two possibilities: your first shutter works fine but with the second the lid makes to much pressure on the speed dial. Or the other way around, the first shutter needs a litter bit more pressure.

This pressure can be aligned with the inner ring which holds the cover of the shutter in place. To avoid that this ring turns during the time dial is moved, there is a little screw. Remove the screw, turn the inner ring one or two steps clockwise to increase the pressure. If the time dial works fine, fix the ring with the screw again.

[GPS]

I would discourage anyone with Brent's knowledge of LF stuff from fiddling with shutter "repair"...
You worry too much, Brent. Take pics with no worry about the dial softness - there are more important things for you to discover...

[Gene McCluney]

The crispness or lack of crispness of the shutter ring setting has no bearing on the accuracy of the settings. The shutter speeds are set by a cam-type surface milled into the ring behind the cover plate. The settling in of the settings is merely a tactile aid to setting the shutter speeds, and does not affect the accuracy of the speeds. As long as you have the "pointer" centered at the speed selected you will get that speed (within shutter tolerances).

[ignis075]

Thank you all for the prompt advice.

GPS and Gene, this eases my mind considerably, knowing that the shutter time values will not "slip" into the next increment. Mostly I was bothered by the thought that the lens was mint glass attached to a worn shutter, in which case I'd seek out a refund.

Peter, I am curious about the "fix" you mentioned... and while I don't have prior experience with LF lenses, I'm fairly technical and this sounds like a relatively easy solution.

According to the photo of the shutter (attached), can I "tighten" the shutter ring by removing screw "A" and turning metal ring "B" clockwise, one or two units? Is this the technique you describe? If so, it's something I might attempt... but if the process is more difficult, then I won't attempt any adjustments.

Perhaps this thread will be of some interest to other members too. I don't necessarily promote the idea of self-adjusting fine clockwork leaf shutters... just that this might be an interesting topic to some people.

- Brent

[Archphoto]

That screw will not come out how much you turn it !
Just rotate the screw enough to free the ring and than tighten the ring untill you and the shutter feel comfortable with it and put the srew back into this position, so the ring stays into place.

That's all.

Peter

[Peter K]

[QUOTE=Archphoto;453565]That screw will not come out how much you turn it !/QUOTE]
That's true for the newer version like shown in Brent's picture. But with older models the screw comes out. And sometimes got lost.

[ignis075]

Thanks to all! I adjusted the ring... actually I turned it counter-clockwise to reduce the pressure, and that improved the "click" between each setting. It's much better now and it only required 2 minutes of effort!

[Archphoto]

Peter, I was refering to the srew in the picture, many of my older shutters have those tiny screws that jump around if you are not carefull..........

I never lost one, touch wood......

I have been servicing these shutters for the past 25 odd years and have my own designed shutterspeed tester.

The other Peter

[venchka]

Welcome to the Club.

According to the Sage and the Oracle at this Forum, you bought the second lens 1 to 10 years early.

Have fun! Enjoy!