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Thread: Epson V700 Issue

  1. #11
    Clement Apffel's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    When I get home this evening, I am going to try this on my Epson 4990.
    Yes please, and tell me what are your conclusions.

    Because I red quite often the statement about the 2000 dpi or so on resolution targets.
    But you can have a look to the attachement : unsharpened crop of a 4x5" scanned at 1000 dpi on my 4870...

    actually 2 images and the crops.

    Is this 2000 dpi optical res ?
    even 1000 dpi ?

    to me it is not.

    But I am very ready to hear that my demand of sharpness is too high.
    Or that I misuse my scanner. It is totaly possible.

    But I tryed countless drivers, softwares, scan methodology. But none made it.

    Please tell me what you think.
    regards,

    clément apffel

  2. #12
    Clement Apffel's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Second image and crops.

    I forgot to mention the tech details :

    Kodak T-Max 100
    Cambo SCX 4x5"
    Schneider Super-Angulon XL 90/5.6

    Probably f/16 or f/22 1/125s or so on the image 1.
    and f/16 1s or so on the image 2.

  3. #13

    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    I use the V700 with the betterscanning adjustable height holder with ANR glass. It is required to get what the V700 is capable of. I can't speak to the actual optical resolution, but I've drunk the koolaid and believed it to be 3200, then upressed if you scan at 6400, which I never do. I did a test, and the results were no different than 3200.

    I scan at a resolution that gets me a file that is bigger than my intended print size at 300 dpi, then I reduce to final size in Photoshop. Most people think Photoshop's up/down ressing algorithms are better than most scanning software's algorithms. For a print the size you're wanting, I'd scan at 3200 dpi. For a 240 dpi print, that's a little less than your desired 24" x 30" size, but you could up-res in photoshop if you really needed it bigger.

    As said before, don't sharpen in scanning. Now comes the most important part of getting a sharp print. You need to apply a series of sharpening passes to the file. If you google "Image Sharpening Bruce Fraser" you'll read articles by and about Bruce and his sharpening techniques. If you can find his book Real World Image Sharpening, it contains the secret sauce formulas for making the sharpest possible inkjet prints. His concepts are embedded in the PixelGenius PhotoKit Sharpener. I use the strategies and photoshop actions in his book, and my prints have have so become sharp that I'm cutting back on the crispness level. I shoot both 6x7 and 4x5, but it's with the MF negatives that I've needed every ounce of what I can get out of the V700. I've had prints made at the 17" x 22" size, and they were very nice at a proper viewing distance.

    Some would say that the V700 can't make a sharp 24" x 30" print. I've never tried, but I do believe that may be pushing the V700 beyond its limits.

  4. #14

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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    I scan films by V700 with the following settings:

    Scanning software : Silverfast (Epson SE)
    Scan type : 24 bit color
    Image type : Landscape
    Filter : Auto Sharpen

    ....
    Apart from all the other useful info you've been given, I note that you are scanning in 24 bit colour - you'd be better off scanning 48bit colour (16 bits per colour). Personally, I don't get on with Silverfast, and prefer to use the Epson Scan software.

    The only way you can really measure what resolution you are getting from your scanner (remembering there is some unit variation) is to scan a resolution test target.

    If you don't want to get the betterscanning holders, you can improve things by using a sheet of ANR or anti-reflective glass cut to fit into the existing epson holders. This helps ensure the film is as flat as possible. BTW, don't forget to get the holder height adjusted properly.

  5. #15

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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    He uses the Betterscanning fluid mounting station with an Epson 4990. That is what I remember reading in his technical area.

    Yes, an Epson 4990, but not the fluid mount: I use the Variable Height Mounting Station.



    (larger version)
    Sinar P, 4x5 Kodak TMY, Pyrocat HD
    135mm Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar (un-coated)


    Comparison between scans at 2400 and 800 spi

    In the 2400spi sample on the left, you can see the film grain, and you can clearly see some scratches and other flaws.

    In the 800spi version on the right, the scratches and spots are present, but not sharp at all.

    If we were to sharpen the images in Photoshop, these differences would become more apparent.

    My conclusion is what I have learned the sages on this forum: The Epson scanners are affordable consumer-grade flatbed designs, which give us somewhere around 2100 spi. If we want to print at 300 dots per inch, we can enlarge our film by a factor of 7. If we are more demanding, and want to print at 360 dpi, we can enlarge our film by a factor of 5 or 6. If we are extremely demanding, we can enlarge our film by a factor of only 3 or 4.

    For 4x5 film, these scanners are good enough to make beautiful prints at 16x20 inches. For Medium Format, these scanners may not be good enough for anything larger than 8x10 or 11x14. It depends on the individual photograph.

    If you want to make large prints from Medium Format film, at highest quality, then you should either get a dedicated film scanner like the Nikon, or a high-end flatbed scanner, or a drum scanner. Or, you can send your film for scanning.

    Or, you can move up to Large Format
    Last edited by Ken Lee; 7-Mar-2009 at 05:09.

  6. #16
    Clement Apffel's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Thank you for sharing your test.

    I agree with you when you say that the 2400spi scan is sharper.
    But definitely not by a factor x3.

    To me this 2400 spi scan looks just like my own 1000 spi scans : not sharp.
    We do see film grain. We do see scratches. But we also see that they are far from being sharp.

    Allow me to disagree on the 2100spi optical res value of both our scanners.

    It is maybe more than 840. Maybe 960 or 1000… I don’t know.


    But once again, I think my demand is far above the head of those 500$ scanners.

    I’ll do some dpi tests myself next time I’ll scan some sheets.

  7. #17
    ARS KC2UU
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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    "The optical rez is actually around 840dpi in the width and 960dpi in the length. Anything above this is interpolation.
    A scan made at 840dpi upsized to 2400dpi on photoshop and a scan made at 2400dpi look like twins. Same quality. Actually same blurry soup."


    When I get home this evening, I am going to try this on my Epson 4990.

    My recollection is that others have tested these scanners using resolution targets, and have concluded that when set to 2400 and above, they deliver around 2100 spi.
    I also use the Epson 4990 and my results have been marvellous. I scan 6x17 cm panoramics at 3200 dpi and 4x5 in sheets at 4800 dpi directly into photoshop. File sizes are very large (up to a gig for 4x5) but when saved as jpeg are manageable for my local camera shop that prints on Crystal Archive paper for me. For 4x5 I use the film holder that came with the machine but for 6x17 panoramics I use a homemade holder made from heavy paper with a plastic sheet (cut slightly smaller than 6x17) that flips down on top to hold the edges of the film. The key is to keep the film suspended evenly above the glass about a millimeter where it is in proper focus. If the film is laid directly on the glass it is out of focus and you will get interference figures (Newton's rings) everywhere at the contact points. When enlarged to 24- or 30-inches and framed my photos today look better than they ever did with pre-digital printing methods. So I have found no need to go to more expensive drum-scanning for my best shots. Bob rguinter@yahoo.com

  8. #18
    Clement Apffel's Avatar
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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Yeah. Even though I'm not happy with the scans I'm getting from my 4870 and even though I do not agree with the common resolution value that are announced here and there, I trust people when they say they can have good x3 to x6 enlargements with it.

    I think I’m still doing something wrong when scanning 4x5”.
    No idea what the problem is though.
    I tried to set the height of the Epson film holder with do-it-yourself methods but it did not improve the results what so ever. I think my solution wasn’t very accurate though.

    This thread actually helped me taking my decision about purchasing the betterscanning fluid mounting kit to get the max quality out of my 4870.

    Regards,
    CA.

  9. #19

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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    "I agree with you when you say that the 2400spi scan is sharper.
    But definitely not by a factor x3."


    You make a good point !

    Here is a comparison, after sharpening both images in Photoshop.

    Perhaps this is a more realistic comparison, because we usually sharpen the image to some degree, before printing.

    Perhaps now, the difference between 800 and 2400 is more apparent.


  10. #20

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    Re: Epson V700 Issue

    Thank you, Ken. But maybe you could post crops form places where the detail has more contrast. Low contrast detail yields lower resolution number (or am I wrong here?) Based on what you show I would guess the resolution to be 1200 - 1600 dpi at most.

    ... I would still love to see a scanner that delivers 2800 optical resolutin at 3200 setting ... for under 1000 euro ...

    But none of the above can deny the beatuy of your photo
    Matus

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