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Thread: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

  1. #11

    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    I saw the local Target stores move to Fuji processors a few years ago. Seems like that is a huge slice of market share gone. It would be interesting to see the current numbers from Fujifilm.

    Digital consumer product profit margins are really terrible compared to other products, and competition has fueled these low profits as companies tried to grab market share. How many camera companies have been bought out, or are simply gone entirely. Camera phones are the biggest volume sellers, yet I have never seen an image printed from one of these. I think the average consumer doesn't care about archival issues, printed pictures, or even retaining images of their lives.

    Anyway, we are here on LF Forum as the niche exception to photography as practiced by the masses. In some ways, we can be ambassadors of large format, depending upon our interactions in public. Get enough people curious and interested, and keep the prices within reach, then a niche can survive and maintain.

    If we took Wallstreet reports of downturns to be indications of anything, we might conclude there would be no more cars made by the end of this year. That same (il)logic could be applied to many products. The average person in the developed world is simply not buying anything at the moment that is not essential.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat Photography

  2. #12

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    Eastman was roundly criticized by the photography establishment in his day for many of the same reasons a small handful of people criticize digital photography today. Making photography too easy, producing an inferior product, bringing photography to the masses, putting portrait studios and other traditional commercial types out of business . . . those accusations and more were leveled at Eastman by the commercial and fine art photography establishment of the day. In that sense Eastman Kodak could be said to have been the digital photography business of the early 20th century.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  3. #13

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    There is no doubt that the digital market is taking over in the family snapshots area. For most people it is simply easier to get a decent result from a P&S camera than a film one. I don't take the drop in Walgreens or Walmart processors to be a signal of doom, but rather a transition in the focus of the market. Kodak is today going to need to sell their film product based on the real quality it brings. I don't think they would continue their investment in film if there were not a reasonable expectation that their R&D would be recovered.

    At the same time, I agree that they need to continue to work to be on the cutting edge of digital technology. They've got some great products on the market right now, but some real stinkers too. Their P&S cameras don't seem to be on par with the competition on image quality and are rarely included in various comparisons. But their digital frames are really nice. Their new low cost printer will be an interesting player and I think it is a well thought out product. I'd like to see what else they can come up with.

    The economy is bad right now for everyone, especially companies that are going through a difficult transition. I am confident that Kodak's film business will endure. There is no way that a $1 billion high profit revenue stream will not be maintained in some fashion.

  4. #14
    mandoman7's Avatar
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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    As one who was attempting to make a living from photography in the 80's and 90's, I developed a strong resentment for Kodak's continuous marketing program that stressed the "you can do it yourself" attitude rathering than encouraging a respect for the craft, and the benefits that hiring a professional can offer.

    I never really felt that the company was on my side. Although there was a respected standard to the film quality, at that time there was a reduction in the products for b/w processing (paper & film) while Ilford and other european companies were coming up with great new products.

    It also seemed that their products were consistently developed with a strategy towards maintaining some sort of propietary position, where the films could only be processed through their facilities (kodachrome, disc cameras), rather than create products that maintain and encourage existing procedures. Products that might give them an upperhand rather than developing the industry at large. Readyloads for limited varieties of films, for example, rather than broader assortments of films using existing holders that everyone has already (a product that's now been cancelled).

    Jumping from this impulse to the next, while failing to provide for the group that has been a basic source of income seems to me to be a good reason for a company to go under.

    JY

  5. #15

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    Quote Originally Posted by mrladewig View Post
    There is no doubt that the digital market is taking over in the family snapshots area. For most people it is simply easier to get a decent result from a P&S camera than a film one.
    When bandwidth increases enough that quality digital video can be sent via the web as easily as still pictures are now, snap shooters will drop still photography like a rock....EC

  6. #16

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene McCluney View Post
    Are new/remodeled Wal-Mart stores really eliminating their one-hour labs?
    The Targets and Walmarts in my area have indeed eliminated their one hour labs.

    Philly suburbs.

  7. #17

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    Hi guys- nice to have found this forum...

    here is my perspective-


    I for one, am glad that Wal-mart does not carry the ART SUPPLIES i need for my FINE ART hobby.

    I am glad that the art supplies I use have no relationship to cell phone features and the average consumer slob, or worse yet "pro-digi-photographer" (gag).

    The future business model for Bergger, Ilford, etc is to be carried in Pearl art stores, maybe Michael's, etc. etc...

    The Windson-Newton oil paint co. turns a profit every year.

    Hopefully some of the coating machines and formulas at Kodak are sold to smaller companies like this, instead of being destroyed... but like it or no, Kodak is getting out of film (and I agree that this is the beginning of the end, their digi products are nothing special).

    I am glad for the d****al imaging revolution for consumers. I believe it serves to clearly define and seperate what I do from the average a****le and gives my work the same handmade value as other art forms.

    It's a shame they took the word "photography", but let them have it-

    how about simply "silver-gelatine based artwork"

  8. #18

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    So, ghost, anyone who has found other things to do with their lives besides what you do with your film cameras, and who wants to participate in their own lives by recording it digitally with an affordable digital camera, is an asshole?

    Makes sense.

    Stupid a****les for taking the word as well. I mean, the entire process is identical except for the recording medium, how dare they call it photography as well!

    Makes sense.

    Do you accept commercial, production, and fashion photographers into your elite? Or are they a****les as well for daring to use digital cameras?

    Well, it's understandable...because everyone else is stupid if they don’t care to lug out twelve pound cameras and $5 sheets of film when their children smile, or they are renting a studio space for hundreds of dollars an hour.

    Also, glad you've discovered how to star-out the word d****al, because that will make the stupid a****les and the stupid technology go away for sure.


  9. #19

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    Please don't feed the trolls!

  10. #20

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    Re: George Eastman Spinning In His Grave

    YES- that's exactly what i was trying to say! Everyone is an a****le except me, unless I happen to be using my d****al camera, in which case I am an a****le too!

    Kidding aside, it is kind of nice that lugging around the LF stuff,(I'm not sure that makes you elite,insane maybe) is now so clearly DIFFERENT than the way we take snaps of our kids...and rather than bemoan the fact thet Wal Mart no longer carries these supplies, maybe it would make sense to celebrate that we now have small companies like the Formulary... specifically geared towards this different, not better- pursuit. Our remaining pro photo store in Baltimore has all thier film and chems now in a section by themselves, which the have labeled "Fine Art Section" on their site... I think it's kinda nice.

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