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Thread: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

  1. #1

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    WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    I am hoping anyone with Ilford, Wephoto or other brand film can take an exact measurement of their sheet film for me. I have heard that Ilford sometimes have some variances so I want to know what the largest examples are...Also anyone with a Full Plate sheath that can provide an exact measurement would be very helpful

    To explain, I have older (but good condition) wooden book-form dry plate holders. up until now I have always just placed my film in just as if it was a glass dry plate and placed a sheet of glass, wooden board or cardboard (or a few different things tried over time) on top of the film and away I went.

    I did it this way, because, well the first old plate camera I ever got was already set up in this fashion, with the boards cut and inside the holders, so naturally I assumed this was the correct way...I suppose it is, if it works. (Only in recent times have i started looking on the net, and see what others do--I was nearly better off in my blind blissful small world LOL)

    However I recently got some Kodak Tmax 400 and it is smaller than I have had before. As a result it just manages to fall through my holders. The measurements on the box of the Tmax 400 says 6" 7/16 x 8" 7/16 and is said to be cut within 1/2000 of an inch but in actual fact it is 1/16 smaller again (161.9mm x 213.2mm) than the measurement on the box. if it was cut 1/16 bigger (1.5mm) it would just catch enough of the edge of the holder that it wouldn't fall through.

    So, a long story I know, but by coincidence I happen to be about to get some new laser cut film sheaths made for 9x12 film (I wanted some more to what I have) and will be unfortunately getting more than I need because of the cost of setting up ect, and the firm has to order in the very thin sheeting, so I may as well use the whole sheet of steel or order any extra at the same time.

    So I figure at the same time I may as well see if I can get them to make some sheaths for my whole plate film (hoping I don’t have to pay set up fees again but probably will have to, but at least I wont have to pay twice for ordering in extra of this sheet steel), with the view that then these can be used, even if a slightly loose fit with the Tmax 400, but also the other brands, albeit for them, a bit more snugly. Unless someone has some sheaths they don’t need--or if someone does have one perhaps they can measure it for me (exactly) so I can compare the measurements!

    So far I am inclined to make the width measurement (A) 165mm (maybe 165.5mm) and the fold (B) will aim to be 3mm as that appears to be what my half plate and other sheaths use (thickness .3mm), although modern machines have difficulty with this small of a fold, so all I have spoken to have said anyway. As such it may result in size up to 3.5mm-4mm but the guy doing this for me says he thinks he can manage 3mm but just cant guarantee me up front; needs to experiment, adjust his machine and do by hand.

    cheers
    Andrew

  2. #2
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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Andrew, I have some Eastman WP film sheaths. I will try to dig one up over this weekend and make some measurements for you. Stay tuned...

  3. #3

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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Andrew,

    I know it is not the same but I have some 4x5 sheaths (Kodak, I think) and the fold (B) dimension is 2 mm. At either end, the 4" side, the sheath is folded down (90 degrees) 1mm. I think this is to provide stiffness.

    Hope this is a little bit helpful.

    Paul

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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Thanks Paul, yes the bend of 90 degree does provide a measure of stiffness, but if yours are like my 9x12 sheaths this bend also provides the extra height needed to get the film on the same plane (distance) as what the glass plate was when placed in the metal holders. and the same as the GG screen, or at least within .3mm, the thickness of the metal.

    I will likely add some strips of timber or something else to back of my WP sheaths if i get them made, to acheive an improved stiffness than they would otherwise have, but its not necessary as for the height situation in wooden book holders, like it is for the metal glass plate holders with the darkslide.

    Thanks Oren, I look forward to it
    cheers
    Andrew

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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Interestingly enough, my 4x5 sheaths fit into Kodak 5x7 to 4x5 reducer frames which, in turn, fit 5x7 glass plate holders. I guess this Rube Goldberg set-up was cheaper than getting new film holders if you were a plate user. Amazing what they did back then!

    I haven't tried them out yet to see if the film plane is correct.

    Paul
    Last edited by Paul Bujak; 31-Jan-2009 at 14:23. Reason: Submitted before I was finished.

  6. #6
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Paul, I have a 24x30cm camera with plate holders which contain inserts reducing the size from 24x30cm to 18x24cm to 10x15cm to 9x12cm to 6.5x9cm. One of the two holders contain 24x30-18x24-13x18-9x12-6.5x9 on both sides, the other one has the same but 24x30-18x24-10x15-9x12 on the other side.

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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    OK, I've got a film sheath labeled "No. 3 EASTMAN FILM SHEATH 6 1/2 x 8 1/2" in hand.

    Width (your "A" measure) is 165mm. Length is 216mm. On both long sides, the folded-over lip extends just a hair shy of 5mm toward the center. On one of the narrow sides, there's a folded-over lip that extends 6mm toward the center. The very end of this lip is bent upward slightly. Along the other narrow side, the end from which film is loaded, there is no folded-over lip, but about 2mm of the edge of the holder is bent upward by 90 degrees to retain the film in place.

    The sheath is more complex structurally than just a rectangle with edges bent over. If you were to flatten it out, the folded parts are actually tabs projecting from the rectangle. There are also a couple of finger cutouts from the edge of the sheath where you load the film. Finally, there's a pattern of shallow ridges in the body of the sheath, which appear as slight depressions from the film side.

    I hope all that's useful - let me know if you have any more questions.

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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Bujak View Post
    Interestingly enough, my 4x5 sheaths fit into Kodak 5x7 to 4x5 reducer frames which, in turn, fit 5x7 glass plate holders. I guess this Rube Goldberg set-up was cheaper than getting new film holders if you were a plate user. Amazing what they did back then!
    I have some 5x7 glass plate holders with reducing adapters that accept 3.25x4.25 plates. You can fit 3.25x4.25 sheaths in the adapter where the plates are supposed to go.

    Score another one for Mr. Goldberg...

  9. #9

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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Thank you Oren, the detailed discription is most helpful. cheers

    The 6mm fold on the short side, that has the slight upward turn of 2mm on the edge of that lip may not be able to be easily reproduced but obviously it is there to falcilitate easier loading and will probably work ok without it.

    The tab shape is easy seeing how i am having them laser cut, the firm that will cut them said its no more difficult for curves or shapes to be made for the tabs.

    Can you tell me how far in from the ends the tabs start, particularly on the short side. I am guessing it may (or may not) make it easier for the guy folding the tabs if there is enough clearance not to interfere with the fold on the long side.

    I am not sure exactly where the finger cut outs are, but i am assuming it is on the 2mm piece bent up 90' . Are they about 24mm from the edge and about 10mm long/space. And only out of the 2mm bent up section? If so they are probably to provide clearance, for the little brass bits screwed to the inside of the darkslide, to prevent the darkslide from being pulled out completely

    The ridges may be too difficult to reproduce, no doubt they add stiffness. I may have to come up with another way of providing stiffness. do they run length ways or across the short distance? Can you tell how thick the material is .3mm or .5mm?

    So far the largest dimention for Ilford film that has been given to me is 163.5mm in width but was also said to be a tight fit (frustratingly) in what he said was an Eastman film sheath. LOL I wonder where people find these things, I have never noticed them anywhere (not that I have needed them before). If anyone has any (that are flat) and wants to sell them I am interested before I have some made.
    cheers
    Andrew

  10. #10
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    Re: WP film and (Sheath) exact size examples for new sheaths

    Andrew, I'll try to find time tomorrow to make some digisnaps of one of these sheaths. That should answer some of your questions and make it easier to discuss any others.

    EDIT - I should add, looking back at your initial post: AFAIK, these sheaths were designed for use in later block-form plate holders, rather than earlier book-form holders. At least that's the only way I've seen them used, and the way I've used them. I mention that because it may not make sense to try to match the design too precisely - what matters will be the fit to your own plate holders. In any case, once you see some pictures you can figure out what aspects of the design can be usefully adapted for your purposes. More to follow...

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