Advice for long lens rental for Yosemite

[An Infinite Journey]

Thank you everyone for your quick response for my cry for help. As most of you have noticed, these lenses are all for an 8x10 as that is what is available locally for the long side - I will try Sammy's in LA though for a telephoto or make do with what I have and make the shot my own...

Vaughn - I look forward to possibly bumping into you -

[Nathan Potter]

None of the lenses you mention or others have mentioned will give you the detail you may be seeking unless you address the issue of camera and tripod vibration. This is the dominant issue for tele work using a view camera. If you're really lucky you'll have no wind so the problem will be reduced. But I would think this through a bit before departing and have a strategy for maximizing the stability of your setup. There are a number of good threads here discussing the issues with some very practical solutions.

Two vibration mitigation strategies I use are the bag of rocks hung from the tripod center post and a two tripod technique; the second one solely supporting the tip of the lens. After you have achieved the most stability you can, check the critical focus using a good loupe and tweak slightly as necessary. These teles have a seemingly vanishingly narrow depth of focus at even moderate apertures and you may be working at maximum wide open apertures of f/11 or f/16 for the purpose of focusing.

I use the Nikon convertible teles often with great satifaction but others mentioned have first rate intrinsic optical quality also.

Take your time; work carefully; and most of all have fun.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Vaughn]

...Vaughn - I look forward to possibly bumping into you -

Just don't bump into my 8x10!

I want to attend the opening of the Yosemite Renaissance Show (Friday, Feb 27th 5pm) in the Valley, photograph a bit, and check out the workshop facilities at the Ansel Adams Gallery (I am teaching at a workshop there for the first time in April and I don't want any surprises!) I'll hang around until late Sunday or mid-day on Monday, before driving the 400 miles back home.

Just keep your eyes out for a tall hairy guy with a big piece of wood on wood sticks! If you see a shorter guy with an even larger piece of walnut on walnut sticks, that will be Jim Fitzgerald...he got a photo (carbon print) into the Renaissance Show.

Vaughn

[Eric Leppanen]

I gather from your posts that any additional equipment you procure will be on a rental basis only, so I'll limit my suggestions to that line...

The current Arca F-Metric standard 4x5 bellows has a maximum extension of 380mm, and I'm assuming your bellows is the same or similar. Also, if you have the standard 30cm optical bench and two 15cm rails, then this also adds up to around 380mm of maximum extension if I recall correctly. So you will not be able to focus a 450mm standard (non telephoto) lens with your camera.

If you want to shoot 4x5, your best bet is to go for the nearer shot as described by Keith, and rent a telephoto as you have already noted. The Nikon 360/500T convertible, Fuji 400T, and Schneider 400 APO Tele Xenar will all fit the extension limits of your camera for a distant subject. The Nikon and Fuji would ideally be preferred because they use Copal 1 shutters, which have less vibration and "kick" than the Copal 3 used by the Schneider.

Your Arca should have plenty of stability to handle any of the Copal 1 telephotos above, as long as you have a solid tripod and use good technique (wait for the spirit levels on the camera to completely settle before clicking the shutter, protect the camera from wind with a golf umbrella, etc.). For the Schneider, you should preferably use a second tripod or long lens support arm to control shutter vibration.

I have used Samy's quite a bit for rentals. According to their rental catalog, the only telephoto they stock from the above list is the Schneider, which is quite expensive ($70/day). When rentals become this expensive, you may be better off buying a used lens which you flip once you've finished using it; you may actually save money that way. Calumet is another rental possibility.

Using a roll film adapter will simplify the lens issues, but if this is a rental too then you will have limited time to familiarize yourself with it.

[An Infinite Journey]

Thank you Nathan, Vaughn and Eric,
Being a newbie to LF and 3 different systems (35mm wildlife 400mm lens, 645 with 55-210mm and my Arca with a 90 and 150) leaves me a bit strapped for cash...that's why I'm trying to make the rental thing work.

hmmm, Nathan - you're right about the vibration...I'll keep my fingers crossed to be working in a vacuum - but just in case, my pack should be heavy enough to weigh down the tripod and I definitely like the golf umbrella idea.

Vaughn, I have that very weekend booked - so perhaps I'll make it to the gallery and check out the work...by the way, what workshop are you leading?

Eric - yes i have the 30 with the split 15 rails, Harley mentioned his handled the fuji 450C so may be I'll get an extension for the bench???

So, I'll still search for answers and call Jim and Badger for additional help.

Thanks again - this is such a wonderful forum.

[Eric Leppanen]

Eric - yes i have the 30 with the split 15 rails, Harley mentioned his handled the fuji 450C so may be I'll get an extension for the bench???

All right, this intrigued me enough that I got out my Arca F-Line Classic 4x5 (141mm version) and checked this out, using my Nikon 450M. The 450M requires 429mm of extension to focus at infinity, the smaller Fuji 450C requires 426mm of extension.

The standard Arca bellows is conservatively specified, and is physically capable of extending out to around 500mm or so before it completely loses its pleating. Note that one should retain some pleating in the bellows, as it plays an important role in reducing flare. Stretching out the bellows to its extreme limit is not good LF technique.

So here's the scoop when using the 30cm bench: with a 15cm back rail (slid as far as possible to the rear of the bench while still being able to clamp down), one can barely focus a Nikon 450M at infinity with a 20cm front rail (slid as far as possible to the front of the bench while still being able to clamp). The amount of pleating in the bellows at this extension is not ideal but probably adequate; it would help if you could install a lens hood onto the front of the lens to help minimize flare. Preferably you should use a 25cm or longer rail to give you more focusing leeway and margin for error. You should of course verify all this since your Arca may have some differences versus mine, but I doubt they will prove greatly significant.

So it looks like a standard 450mm lens may work with your current bellows if you procure a longer rail for it. And for an Arca rail I would suggest calling Rod Klukas of Photomark in Phoenix (www.photomark.com), as he probably sells more Arca equipment than any other LF dealer in the U.S. Rod might have a used rail lying around that he could sell at a reasonable price (I'm not sure if Photomark is still in the LF equipment rental business or not).

So now you have several options. The 400 APO Tele Xenar requires no new rail but needs additional stabilization (Copal 3). The Nikon 450M requires a longer rail and additional stabilization (Copal 3). The Fuji 450C requires a longer rail but no additional stabilizaton (Copal 1). Decisions, decisions!

This exercise has been useful to me too, in that I can now use a 450mm lens with my standard bellows in a pinch.

[An Infinite Journey]

Thanks Eric !
I've just been a little busy to set up the camera - I know...lame excuse, but life does happen...thanks for the tip on keeping the bellows pleating too.

Anyway, I will definitely call around to see the cheapest way to go...I already have a copal 3 board and wrench so I might go with the Nikon since my 1 board is tied up with my 150. I think it's a tad faster too.

And who knows - maybe if the bellows and extension rail are cheap enough - maybe the Fuji 600 (as the ebay Nikkor 800 is out of my league).

[jb7]

What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?

that'd be the Nikkor 800 then...

go on-
sell it after,
still cheaper than a rental-

j

[venchka]

For a once-in-a-liftime opportunity, the 150mm lens will come off of it's board if you find a long lens in a #1 shutter. The beauty of LF lenses is the infinite adaptability of the hardware.

Look at page 22 of the large format lens listings at KEH.

[Vaughn]

...Vaughn, I have that very weekend booked - so perhaps I'll make it to the gallery and check out the work...by the way, what workshop are you leading?

The Yosemite Renaissance Show is at the Yosemite Museum, which is on the other side of the Visitor Center from the Ansel Adams Gallery. It is in the same building as the Native American Museum. The show opening on Friday is also a chance to get a free "dinner", and a glass or two of wine...the food is usually pretty good! The opening continues until 7 or 7:30, which means you can photograph until dark and still might make it there before the food is gone.

I will be teaching carbon printing on April 14 to 18 at the AA Gallery. It is a hand-made "alternative" photographing process. I make prints out of Knox Unflavoured Gelatin from the supermarket, some sugar, and some lampblack watercolor paint -- I call them my "Jello" prints! LOL! The images have a raised relief (the blacks are made of a thicker layer of gelatin than the highlights.)

If the weather turns bad on us during the weekend and you can't spend your time more productively by photographing, ask Glenn Crosby, the curator at the AA Gallery if he has time to show you my carbon prints (I also have some platinum prints there). Warning...if you end of liking the carbon process, it could lead you to the desire of a larger LF camera...it is a contact printing only process -- the print is the same size as your negative.

Vaughn