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Thread: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

  1. #1

    Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    Best film/developer combination for scanning with Jobo CPP2 processor (4X5 film in Jobo Expert drum 3010,roll film in Jobo 2553 tank).Please let me know,time,temperature,dilution,rotation...like starting point to work out my controllable process.

  2. #2

    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    Not everything, but let's start with Pyrocat-HD with just about any film. As pyro and catechol developers builds part of the density as stain, grain is less pronounced and the films will scan better.
    If you are going to do just scanning ... and no traditional darkroom printing, you can develop the film a little less as scanning benefits from somewhat thin negatives.
    For me I always use the CPP2 at 24C with rotation set around 3-F on the scale. (For the 2500 tank I use the P setting, but I recon I could use a slower one.) (The consensus seem to be to rotate as slow as possible so that you doesn't shoot the processor motor. Also, developer oxidizing plays its part.)
    There are plenty of starting times published for Pyrocat. Check unblinkingeye.org. You still have to do your own final testing.

    //Björn

  3. #3
    Thomas
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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    There is an excellent article by Paul Butzi on that subject ( http://www.butzi.net/articles/tuning1.htm). I am using both TMAX 400 and TMAX 100 with XTOL 1+0 and follow the times in Paul Butzi's tables. It has given me good negatives for scanning.

    I have used D-76 developer as well, and the results were also good. I have switched over to XTOL because it gives me a few additional options for pushing TMAX 400 film to 3200.

    I use rotary development on a Jobo CPE with 2551 / 2553 Jobo tubes, mostly sheet film 4x5, but also some roll films. I let the CPE rotate fast (speed set to 2). Close to what you are using. I plan to give a Jobo 3010 a try in the near future, my starting times would be the same.

    My experience is that exposure / development timing is more critical for scanning negatives than film / developer combination. Many film/developer combinations will deliver good results I suppose. I get the best results in scanning when I overexpose and under-develop by one stop. For example, I usually expose TMAX 400 at ISO 200 and I develop N-1. I found this out accidentally. I have since read a few articles / posts which seem to confirm this. Negatives seem to scan better when they are a bit on the thin side.

    Greetings, Thomas

  4. #4
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Dymersky View Post
    Best film/developer combination for scanning with Jobo CPP2 processor (4X5 film in Jobo Expert drum 3010,roll film in Jobo 2553 tank).Please let me know,time,temperature,dilution,rotation...like starting point to work out my controllable process.
    We have similar equipment. That said, if you are *ever* going to print in the darkroom then optimize for the darkroom. It will scan just fine.

    If you will *never* print in the darkroom you can safely optimize for scanning. Optimizing for scanning isn't hard, but it varies from scanner to scanner so you'll have to do some testing to find out what works best for you.

    Scanners like somewhat thinner negatives than enlargers do. This is because scanners tend to be a bit more sensitive to graininess and Callier Effect. These cause somewhat exaggerated grain and loss of local contrast in your highlights in your scan file. As you decrease development and therefore decrease a given negative's Dmax, graininess decreases, and as graininess decreases so does Callier Effect. When you get to the point that your scan file shows fairly linear local contrast levels from shadows to highlights, you've gone far enough. Any more and you start to loose some of the smooth tonal transitions that LF is known for.

    For me and my scanner this works out to about a Zone VIII density of 1.0, so something like a one stop pull. Of course YMMV.

    Where to start? With the manufacturer's recommended time for your conditions. I personally like 400Tmax in XTOL 1:3, but there are many combinations that work well for scanning.

    Bruce Watson

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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    This has been a very useful thread as someone who has recently got seriously into processing my own film, both 120 and 4x5. I've been (probably mistakenly) using Rodinal 1+100 for Adox 25 and Tmax, it does seem more grainy than I'd expected - is Rodinal a bad idea for drum scanning?

  6. #6

    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    Quote Originally Posted by uniB View Post
    This has been a very useful thread as someone who has recently got seriously into processing my own film, both 120 and 4x5. I've been (probably mistakenly) using Rodinal 1+100 for Adox 25 and Tmax, it does seem more grainy than I'd expected - is Rodinal a bad idea for drum scanning?
    If you don't like the grain, Rodinal is a bad idea. Even though you are using fine-grained films you seem to suffer from grain. (Is the Adox 25 the Efke film called CHS25 or the Adox Pan 25?) While Rodinal 1:100 should give "small" grain with these films, it's still a sharp grain. Anyhow, either a more solvent dev. like Xtol or a Pyro/catechol dev. will give you much less pronunciated grain, which might be better suited for scanning.
    To make it easy, you could start out with buying a small 1 liter pack/bottle of Kodak D76 (or Ilford ID11 which is identical), which is "the standard" developer. It should give you good results which are still quite different from the Rodinal ones.

    //Björn

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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    Thanks for the advice Björn,

    Yes it is CHS25 I've been using, I have some ID11 so I'll give that a go next time and I'll maybe get hold of some Xtol as I've heard such good things about it also.

    Of course it's easy to look at an image on screen, once scanned and think it looks overly grainy but once it's printed the grain becomes pretty much invisible.

  8. #8
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    I would argue that the original question is approaching the issue from the wrong direction. Each film has a certain character, and that character can be massaged by choosing different developers. Properly exposed and processed negatives produced by virtually any combination can be scanned well. As such, I think it's better to choose a film/developer combination that is well-suited to the subject matter, and how one wishes to render that subject.

  9. #9
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    I agree with most of what's been said. In my experience thinner, fine-grained negatives scan the best, and so tmax 100 in d76, Xtol or microdol-X works very well. Unlike some others, though, I find that my scanner does a great job with what would be under-exposed shadows with traditional printing. Thus, while I tend to give very generous exposure with negatives aimed for traditional printing, I rate the film faster when shooting for scanning. (To be more specific, for traditional printing, I aim for a Zone I net density of between .15 and .2 above film base plus fog, whereas for scanning .1 or even a little less is ok. But as with all this stuff, you should do your own tests.) For Zone VIII density, my practice coincides with Bruce's.

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    Re: Best film/developer combination for scanning.

    If available, a chromagenic B&W film designed for the C-41 process is probably the best choice for scanning.
    IMHO, it would be a shame not to produce a print from a traditionally processed B&W film negative onto proper silver halide paper.

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