Zone System Beginner

[darr]

Ok, so I have a few questions after doing some reading.

1.) Is the zone system the best way to meter a landscape scene with a Pentax 1 degree spot meter?

2.) If I expose my negative by the zone system.. Do I need to be sure to give directions to the lab to develop my negative per the zone system?

3.) if I use a different method of metering to expose my negative, can I just give my negative to the lab to expose with no special directions and get a correct development?

1. IMO, the zone system is the optimum way to meter for a black & white landscape if you follow through with the correct development time. The spot meter is designed for use along with the zone system.

2. Depends, but if your going to be shooting for the zone system, assume: Yes. If you are using the zone system then you understand that you meter for the shadows and develop for the highlights. The highlights may need N+1, N+2, or N-1, N-2 development besides N.

3. Possibly. You need to experiment before you can know these things.

I do not think you understand the zone system completely. The zone system is a system where you shoot (meter) for the shadows and control the development process as much as possible for optimal highlights. That means you need to have the ability to adjust your development times. IMO, it is the best way to shoot Black & White. Others will surely chime in.

[papergiraffe]

Darr- I am new to the zone system but the way I understand it is exactly as you described it. I was just making sure I was on the right path. I want to develope my own neg's in the future but need to get comfortable exposing them first. It just seems like the trust must really be there if I use a lab. I have never used a lab to process film other that 35mm so I am just a little uneducated on how well thay take direction on custom processing. I will give it a try.

So to finalize, as I find my shadow area that I want to show detail in and meter it. I then stop it down 2 zones since my meter wants to make that area a V but I want it darker. Now that I have my dorks set for my exposure, I need to access what I want my lights to be developed for right? I would need to see what my lightest area was and note the adjustments to be made in developing. Let me know if I have this wrong. I know I can meter any area, not just shadows that show detail. I just need to know that the reading given by the spot meter will make that area in zone V and I need to correct to what the proper zone I think the area should be exposed for.

Last, and I feel this is a dumb question because I have not made sense of it in my own head. What if I had a gray card and set it in the scene and metered it? My meter would show exactly what the exposure should be for that tone. But what would happen to the rest of my scene?

[darr]

Darr- I am new to the zone system but the way I understand it is exactly as you described it. I was just making sure I was on the right path. I want to develope my own neg's in the future but need to get comfortable exposing them first. It just seems like the trust must really be there if I use a lab. I have never used a lab to process film other that 35mm so I am just a little uneducated on how well thay take direction on custom processing. I will give it a try.

The trust in labs is the reasons some of us develop our own films. My least favorite part of shooting is the chemistry part, but I have been stung by bad lab work years ago. I would feel very insecure expecting superior service now for push/pull requirements in the age of digital. There are I suppose some superior labs that will adjust your development as needed, but it has to be expensive if they have a reputation for being superior. The cost and confidence has certainly made my choices for me.

So to finalize, as I find my shadow area that I want to show detail in and meter it. I then stop it down 2 zones since my meter wants to make that area a V but I want it darker. Now that I have my dorks set for my exposure, I need to access what I want my lights to be developed for right?

Yes. Look at your scene and lets say it is a landscape and you want the clouds in the sky to be the lightest part of your image with detail. Meter the clouds and move from Zone V up to Zone VII.

I would need to see what my lightest area was and note the adjustments to be made in developing. Let me know if I have this wrong. I know I can meter any area, not just shadows that show detail. I just need to know that the reading given by the spot meter will make that area in zone V and I need to correct to what the proper zone I think the area should be exposed for.

The best way I can show you how I do the process is to share a couple of sheets I recorded from recent shoots. Please excuse my scribble, as I have carpal tunnel and at times it is painful especially when I write.

Here is a Normal (N) Development example:



In this example I was shooting a portrait and did not want a lot of depth of field. I choose a shutter speed of 1/4 sec and metered the shadow area I wanted detail in. I recorded Zone V at f2.8 and went down two zones to find where my Zone III area would fall and recorded f/5.6. Then I metered for the highlights. Zone V recorded at f/11 so I went two zones up and found Zone VII at f/5.6. Perfect! If you look at the chart you will see there is no adjustment needed for development.

Here is a Normal -1 (N-1) Development example:



This was for a landscape shot and I needed much more depth of field, so I choose to use an aperture of f/22. I metered for the shadows: at Zone V it gave me the exposure of: f/11 @ 1 sec --> moving it down 2 zones --> Zone III = f/22 @ 1 sec

The highlights were metered at Zone V at 64 @ 1 sec --> moving it up three zones, I find I am at Zone VIII at f/22 @ 1 sec. This is 1 stop too many for normal development. Normal development would be Zone VII at f/22 @ 1 sec. So this calls for a development of N-1.

Last, and I feel this is a dumb question because I have not made sense of it in my own head. What if I had a gray card and set it in the scene and metered it? My meter would show exactly what the exposure should be for that tone. But what would happen to the rest of my scene?

Nothing is ever a dumb question, especially when you are brave enough (i.e., smart enough) to ask it!

Your exposure meter will give you the average meter reading for the 18% gray card. Think of the 18% gray card as Zone V -- ALWAYS!! Others may comment about reflective, incident, etc. But, hey when you are starting out, just stick to the Zones and use your spot meter. It gets easier over time. I hope I did not take up too much space here. The sheet I made up years ago and have modified it over the years. There is a lot of gibber-jabber on it, so just look at the pencil info.

Kind regards,
Darr

[Brian Ellis]

With respect to #3, you certainly can use other systems and just give the negatives to a lab and let them process. You'll get some perfect results (in the sense that the negative will allow you to make the print you want to make with a minimum of effort), some acceptable results (you can more or less make the print you want to make but with more effort than necessary), and some unacceptable results (you can't make the print you want to make no matter how much effort you expend). The goal of the zone system is to allow you to always be able to make the print you want to make, with as little effort as possible. Not to say effort isn't required, just that it's hopefully less than if you didn't use the zone system.

[bspeed]

I am a newbie, so may I ask, what happens to the Shadows/Negative when the N-1, N+1 development time for highlights are used ?

[darr]

I am a newbie, so may I ask, what happens to the Shadows/Negative when the N-1, N+1 development time for highlights are used ?

They remain as in Normal development.
Development totally controls highlight densities.
Exposure sets shadow densities.

[Vaughn]

Just to add to Darr's accurate description...very little light hits the film in the shadow areas. Only a limited amount of silver has been hit by light. In the mid-tones and hightlights it is the opposite. If 10 "units" (don't worry what the units are) of light hit your shadows about 300+ units are hitting in your highlight areas...which is a heck of a lot more.

So when you develop, those 10 units worth of exposure quickly get developed...with in the first couple minutes or so (this is a generalization) and all the silver in the shadows are developed and nothing else happens there...no matter how long you develop.

But your midtones and highlights are still working away in the developer...and if you let them develop all the way, you could end up with "bullet-proof" negs (extremely dense and blocked up highlights). So one determines (by the Zone system, for example) when to cut off the development to control how far the hightlights develop.

Vaughn

[Sizam]

If the negative will be scanned is there a point in using the zone system? I guess another way to phrase it is by using the Zone system to modify my development process will I get a better negative for scanning or does the Zone system only help with getting a better negative ready for printing to paper?

EDIT:
Upon further reading of the previous two posts it seems obvious that there is merit to the zone system for scanning.

[Mark Sawyer]

I'd say the zone system (and its relatievs, like BTZS) help deliver a negative with the desired densities in the shadows and highlights. Exposure determines the shadow detail, while development determines contrast, insuring that the highlights don't block up, and there's a good tonal range inbetween.

Materials, development methods, and personal aesthetics also play a big part, and I'd guess everyone ends up with their own version of whatever system they choose...

[Joe Forks]

Darr,
I'm trying to learn the zone system as well so forgive me for this question but since you posted the example I had to examine it to see if I understand.

Firstly, aren't we looking for a 5 stop contrast range for (N) normal? In your first example Zone III to Zone VII is 4 stops so why wouldn't that be N+1? Then following that logic your second example should be (N) as it is 5 stops.

I'm just asking, so don't shoot me, this was for my own exercise.

Best
Joe