Opinions of Goerz Dagor/Artar lenses

[Ernest Purdum]

No, such questions are by no means offensive. It's not surprising that you were unaware that other people have had the same questions long ago.

Dan has pointed out the Forum's search function which can be very useful. If, however, after trying it you still have questions, post them. The first couple of lenses I purchased were terrible choices. I would have been so much better off if the Forum had then existed.

[Steve Hamley]

Ole's comment that there's nothiing special about the Dagor design has merit, but others have commented to the effect that the Dagor sort of hits a "sweet spot" in balancing size, weight, and performance. It isn't the smallest, isn't the lightest, but quite lighter than most modern competitors with similar coverage, and it has as much sharp coverage as most of the plasmat competition with some extra illumination to spare.

I think it's worth noting that all Dagors were not created equal being manufactured by four different companies over a hundred years or so. I have no doubt a modern lens' sharpness falls off less dramatically from center than a pre-1904 Double Anastigmat and is better wide open, but when comparing a late 9-1/2" Gold Dot Dagor to a similar 270mm G-Claron side-by-side on 8x10, there was no discernible difference in sharpness or color rendition on color transparency as far as I went, 4x magnification.

But there are modern alternatives as good or better such as the Computars in the 150mm, 210mm, 240mm, 270mm, and 300mm focal lengths, the Rodenstock Apo Sironar-W series, a 355 G-Claron or 360mm WA Apo Nikkor instead of a 14" Dagor, and a 450mm Nikkor-M instead of a 19" Dagor.

Cheers,

Steve

[Dan Fromm]

For a variety of Dagor type lenses' cross sections and calculated performance, see:

http://www.dioptrique.info/base/n/n_dagor.htm

http://www.dioptrique.info/base/n/n_beryl.htm

http://www.dioptrique.info/base/n/n_protar.htm (look at the ones characterized as 3/3)

or look here http://www.dioptrique.info/base/f/f6.htm and look at all 3/3 lenses

There ain't one Dagor or dagor type, there is many.

[Drew Wiley]

Dagor-style lenses were made in such a variety over such a long time that there is no valid single description of them. But I have owned several of the very last ones
made, the most highly corrected ones, namely, the 14-inch Kern Swiss dagors.
Compared to the best modern plastmats, these dagors have less tangential correction (so not as good at extreme tilts or swings), are very slightly less sharp (though you'd need a lot of enlargement to discern this), and are not as well corrected at very close focus range (as opposed to Fujinon A or G-Claron lenses of the same focal length). But the multicoated Kern (Schneider) dagors had the least flare of any lenses I have ever used. The contrast was so high that I often found these particular lenses difficult to use with color transparency films. I also
detested the no.3 Compur shutter with these - no T setting and a distinct vibration.
So I currently use the next-to-the-last generation of dagor, the single-coated Kern,
which has an older-style multi-bladed no.3 Copal shutter. A wonderful lens for selective focus (not soft-focus) use on the 8x10, though I prefer my plastmats and dialytes for general use. But for ULF you'd need one of the still older dagors with more coverage: not as well corrected, but this is not a handicap when one is contact printing. Otherwise, unless you have special needs, I think the cult status of dagors is overestimated, as are the current selling prices. There are plenty of other lenses which are more affordable and actually better corrected for routine applications.

[Rodney Polden]

Thank you everybody for the interesting contributions on this topic - I have read a certain amount about Dagors and Artars previously, but I found answers among your posts to questions I have not seen addressed elsewhere. Great forum!

[Dion M]

I doubt very much that Murph the OP offended the forum. Dan is not "the forum" and I doubt that he was ever offended anyway. I've spent countless hours reading these forums, and there is so much good info on here, even though info is repeated now and then. Hopefully I'll be able to share some info too, once my brain is completely full.

I, for one, learned a great deal from reading this thread, even though I stumbled upon it accidentally!

[Steve Hamley]

Your questions are old and have been beaten to death and then some. Use the forum's search function.

Dan, you're answer is as old as the question!

Steve

[Dan Fromm]

Dan, you're answer is as old as the question!

Steve

And still on point, Steve.

[Toyon]

I am sorry to have inconvenienced you, I will not post such questions again since it offends the forum.

Bud, no one person speaks for the forum, so you are off track when you believe that you have "offended the forum". Some people are cranky, others not. You should know though that people have unusually intimate and personal feelings about some lenses. Dagors and Apo-lanthars are close to the top, while virtually no one will get heated up about Raptars or Ysarons. You've stepped into the egg basket. So take the debate with good cheer.

[Vaughn]

Dagors and Apo-lanthars are close to the top, while virtually no one will get heated up about Raptars or Ysarons.

Hey! I really like my 210mm WA Graphic Raptar! You got something against them, Mister?!!! (a wink is as good as a nod to a blind man...)

Vaughn