Yet One More Reason to Hate Paypal

[CP Goerz]

I've just finished a long and unproductive call with Paypal I'd like to tell you about that may be of help to any other Ebay sellers...


Some background....A buyer in Russia bought some film from me, I shipped it via priority mail. The buyer doesn't have the film yet and the USPS website shows the package as having left the USA, it was sent on the 21st November and is overdue by my estimate.



The buyer has filed a claim and the funds are on hold, I spoke to paypal who informed me that since the package was sent uninsured I am liable for any mishap till it arrives in the hands of the buyer and is marked as 'delivered' whether they pay for/ask for or want insurance or not.


It makes no difference that I have physical proof of shipping nor that the buyer didn't want insurance I am still on the hook. Apparently its the same policy for items here in the US as well.



Whether the buyer wants insurance or not, complains about high shipping costs etc you HAVE to charge insurance to cover your @ss as paypal will in all likelihood charge me or you for the loss of the package. Yet another reason why I damn well hate that f&**#ng company!


CP Goerz.

[PViapiano]

Your problem isn't with PayPal...

There's two things here that you should avoid in the future. One, if you're in the US, ship only to US, Canada and Australia. Sorry, but this is the most reliable. Russia and eastern Europe, and China can be tough for deliveries. Most of the horror stories end up being from these places.

Two, always buy insurance regardless of what the buyer wants. When someone asks me for shipping costs, I calculate the total with insurance and delivery confirmation, add it up and give them the total.

PayPal has done nothing wrong. It's not up to them to make sure the delivery happens properly, otherwise they'd be on the hook for every mishap and thief in the system.

[BrianShaw]

Yup... that helps clarify things for me.

1. Always insure... for the protection of the seller.
2. Never ship internationally - it takes an unpredictable amount of time and tracking is too difficult because is is out of the USPS hands at that point.

It has very little to do with PayPal in my opinion.

[CP Goerz]

Well I can see your point but disagree slightly.


My problem IS with paypal as they are holding my feet to the fire on this delivery. If I were to hand deliver an item to every buyer I could see them making me the responsible party but that's why we have shipping companies, they are entrusted with the job of delivery which I paid for and who should be responsible. Paypal are holding my funds, they are the ones who will make me pay for the lost item even though I have proof of shipping it. So in my mind Paypal ARE at fault, they are making me the one to take the fall/eat the costs as the buyer will get ALL of his money back while I will be out the shipping costs AND the items.





I already have minor complaints about shipping charges and to add an extra layer of charge invites a lowering of the series of 'stars' that a buyer can leave in regard to costs. Bear in mind that when it falls below a certain percentage you lose favour with Ebay and can be blocked from selling.



A buyer in a 'blocked' country as you suggest can still bid and still be high bidder and still send you funds via paypal so its no guarantee of protection.

[BrianShaw]

I understand your mild disagreement. It is a problem of "boundaries". Where is the boundary of responsibility for delivery in a sale?

Some sellers feel the boundary, at which they relinquish liability, is when they (the seller) hands it over to a shipper - like USPS.

Most buyers feel the boundary is at their front door - when they have received the package the seller is absolved of responsibility to deliver.

I have no idea where USPS feels the responsiblity for delivery begins or ends, but I suspect that they simply do the best they can and assume that insurance will reimburse the seller (shipper) if the item fails to reach the buyer (intended recipient).

I agree with one thing... it sucks to be stuck in the middle of a situation in which there is no control and no information.

[CP Goerz]

Yep, its a slippery slope alright.


Buyers I think may need to be a little more lenient when it comes to shipping costs if they expect 'cradle to grave' coverage.

[Ernest Purdum]

Andrew, I have had somewhat similar problem, but in this case the villain was not PayPal, but the postal services of the U.S.A. and Germany. I sent a payment by registered mail and the tracking number never got me outside of the United States.

Because the item was quite desirable, I wound up paying twice.

[e]

Always fully insure.
Ship EMS thru post office for expensive items, or better yet...ship DHL. Charge customer for FULL SHIPPING + insurance...or don't sell to that customer. If the customer is cheap and doesnt want to pay for insurance..forget em...
In other words...protect yourself...

[Donald Miller]

I sort of think that for a transaction to be completed that two things must happen. The first is that the buyer receives the purchase and second the seller be paid for the mdse. If either of those conditions are not met a transaction has not occurred. The second action is predicated on the first having happened.

The question is whose agent is the shipper. The shipper selected was either an action of the buyer or the seller...if the purchaser selected the shipper than the responsibility for non fulfillment of the contractual agreement is the responsibility of the purchaser...if on the other hand the seller selected the shipper than the shipper is acting as the sellers agent and the responsibility for non performance lies with the seller. Paypal is not even a part of this transaction other than acting as a conveyance for the consideration.

I would imagine that legally the position would be that since the first condition was not fulfilled the second is a mute point.

[CP Goerz]

Would that be true even though the buyer refused insurance...or if the buyer requested the particular shipper that the item was sent through?

This is the justly famous Paypal 'protection' at work, nothing more than a complete passing of the buck.