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Thread: finding many-bladed shutters?

  1. #1
    David J. Heinrich
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    Oct 2008
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    finding many-bladed shutters?

    Hi all,

    I have seen many say that the number and shape of aperture blades doesn't significantly affect the quality of out-of-focus rendition (bokeh pattern). However, articles by Harold M. Merklinger and Christopher Perez suggest otherwise.

    Perez' tests show improvements in out-of-focus rendition by remounting a Schneider Convertible 210mm f/5.6 from a 5-bladed #1 Copal shutter to a 10-bladed round-aperture Prontor. He suggests remounting lenses in shutters with more aperture blades. However, looking on eBay, I can't seem to find many shutters for sale; any suggestions?

  2. #2

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    Duncan Dwelle

  3. #3

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    It's a lot easier just to buy older lenses and have them cleaned and adjusted than to deal with remounting. For the sort of lenses and subjects where you care about bokeh and short depth of field, you will probably be fine with a nice 1950-60s German single-coated lens in a nice Compur shutter -- perhaps they won't be as sharp as a recent Sironar-S in their Copals, but you'd be splitting hairs.

  4. #4
    All metric sizes to 24x30 Ole Tjugen's Avatar
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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    Compounds are nice - the Compound #5 has 23 aperture blades. They don't come much rounder than that!

    The only problem is that newer lenses aren't compatible with the nice old Compounds - even the #3 is different from a Copal #3. That's why I'm glad I found an old 355mm f:9 G-Claron - a drop-in fit in a Compound #3 which it now shares with a 210mm f:4.5 Xenar.

  5. #5

    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    What about barrel lenses with slots for Waterhouse stops?

  6. #6

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    I would think (never tried it), that the small apertures of process lenses might make it difficult to get desired out of focus areas as close as you want to the subject.

  7. #7

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    For the cost of having just a few lenses mounted in shutter, you can get an entire Sinar camera, and a Sinar shutter.

    Then you can use all the vintage and barrel lenses you like, using their many-bladed diaphragms.

    That's what I did.

    You end up with a superb camera, and a modern self-cocking shutter that provides accurate timing from 1/60 second to 8 seconds.

    Even though they used a slide rule instead of a computer, the makers of vintage lenses were no fools. They took the extra trouble to make multi-bladed diaphragms, for a reason.

  8. #8

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    A #1 Prontor Press shutter would give you ten blades without mounting cost. Your Symmar, if in a Copal #1 now, will screw right in with no problem. The problem lies in finding a #1 Prontor Press shutter. They're hard to find. I just got one off the auction site in perfect condition, with correct aperture scale for my lens, for 60 bucks. Mostly due to the hazy description and being listed as a Copal. Ya gotta keep yer eyes open. I'm a happy critter, I am....

  9. #9

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    I think the operative word is "significant". Chris' experiment does show some improvement with large magnifications on small high-contrast areas, but I doubt there's much of an observable difference in real life prints viewed at normal distances. One of Chris' other articles also mentions that the vintage lenses he tried were in many cases virtually indistinguishable from the modern ones when used appropriately, which would seem to contradict the implication that there was much difference resulting from aperture blades. Maybe Chris will comment.

    I find myself becoming more Frommish in my opinions as I experiment with more lenses. I see little if any difference between a B&L 4.5 Tessar and a Heliar, and the designs are somewhat similar. I can see a large difference in lenses that WERE designed to be different, for example a soft focus lens and a modern plasmat. I can also tell the difference between the diffusion of the "dial up" lenses like the Cooke and Universal Heliar, and the aperture-controlled softness of a Veritar, Kodak, etc.

    Cheers,

    Steve

  10. #10

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    Re: finding many-bladed shutters?

    I made some photos which compare Heliar, Tessar, and Sironar-S. I'll try to scan and post them soon.

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