Scanning and printing old BW glass plate negatives.

[Big Fish]

Greetings....

I am relatively new to photoshop and digitial photography however am familiar with photography let's say from the old school.

I am scanning old (dry) glass plate negatives from the 1890's from 4 x5 and 6 x 8 in size and reproducing them in large format ( 30 x 40) high quality sepia-toned prints. I am using an Epson 750 Pro scanner using Silverfast Ai and printing with an Epson 9880 probably using Hanhnemuhle and Crane papers. Is there any one who has specific experince of the complete process of scanning, imaging and printing old glass plates.

Many appreciations for your input.

Best Regards,

Big Fish

[Jeremy Moore]

My experience is the exact opposite of Dakotah's as I would prefer to scan a glass plate negative over a film scan any day--they are always flat!

You may run into a problem with a flatbed scanner that does not let you manually focus, though, as you will have to place the plates directly on the flatbed and the Epson 750's higher resolution lens is a few mm above the glass (to work with their film holders). I use an Epson 10000XL to scan the glass plates because it does give me the option to focus where I choose. This is from experience scanning over a thousand glass plate negs so far.

[Big Fish]

Hi Jeremy...

I made a similar plate holder the same thickness as Epson holders and the deatil seems OK. I've also scanned with a less thick plate holder and there is not much difference. I would rather place the plate directly on the platen.

Do you use Silverfast? Do you scan at 8 bit, 18 or in color? Do you manipulate image in imaging software or in Photoshop?

Thanks.
Big Fish

[Bjorn Nilsson]

On an Epson 750 you can put the emulsion directly on the glass. If Silverfast cannot control which scanner lens set that is in use, the Epson software can. (Set it for using "Film Guide" instead of "Film holder".) Then it will be focused on the top of the glass instead of a couple of mm above.
Unless you are going to make very large prints, the resolution of that scanner lens set is enough. The resolution of old glass plates is usually quite low anyhow.

The only problem could be that old glass plates often reach very high densities, as the processes used then called for it. Most consumer scanners of today likes negatives that are somewhat thin. You don't get more useable resolution from more expensive scanners, but a better range.

Last, shouldn't this thread be in one of the digital sub-forums?

//Björn

[Big Fish]

Hi Bjorn...

I have been hesitant to place plates directly of platen for fear of scrathing. I do have large format (30x40)silver gelatin prints as a baseline reference and trying to get the tonal range is a bit of an issue. I am trying different methods. The reproduced prints will be 30 x 40 and believe it's achieveable to actually make a better print. The key is the scan.
Sorry if this was in wrong forum as I am unfamiliar with forum.

[Bjorn Nilsson]

Hi Bjorn...

I have been hesitant to place plates directly of platen for fear of scrathing. I do have large format (30x40)silver gelatin prints as a baseline reference and trying to get the tonal range is a bit of an issue. I am trying different methods. The reproduced prints will be 30 x 40 and believe it's achieveable to actually make a better print. The key is the scan.
Sorry if this was in wrong forum as I am unfamiliar with forum.

Hi again!
First, the note about the "wrong" sub-forum was a "by the way". I see that you are new here, so I did answer your question first. Btw, welcome to the forum.

Just a thought about using mounting fluid: I would definitely test it first on a plate which isn't important. If the emulsion doesn't sit properly, the mounting fluid can loosen it from the plate. Also, when you mount the plate there will be a suction which will hold the plate quite firmly to the scanner glass. If you make some kind of tool with e.g. a razor blade at the top of a very small "crow bar", it should be easy to lift the plate in one corner after scanning.
I personally use a mounting station from betterscanning.com, as I so far have only scanned normal film. (This mounting station does use the dedicated scanner lens set, which focuses at 3mm or so above the glass surface.) As we are talking about wet mounting on the surface of the scanner glass, I know that there are some issues about sealing the scanner glass along the edges with the 700/750, so do check that first. (There should be a couple of web-pages and some forum threads about this, so just Google it.)

But do test without scanning fluid first. Just make and use a black paper mask to place around it. If you are satisfied with what you get, there is no reason to mess with scanning fluid. (Even though scanning fluid often gives you a little bit better results, with fewer dust specs and fewer visible small scratch marks.)

//Björn

[Big Fish]

Hi Bjorn...

Thanks for welcome and feed back. It seems to be a great group. Isn't the internet great!!! As I mentioned to "d" above I am going to try the wet mount using the Epson wet mould holder using KAMI.(See Aztek.com and view their process). I have scanned numerous variations of the smae image as well as canned an 8 X 10 (Plus-X) copy negative of the plate. Now I will try the wet mount and make a selection. My goal is to reproduce an existing 30 x 40 size silver gelatin print I did 30 years ago. I am confident I am close. The next key is paper selection which I am narrowing down in next few weeks. I am looking at Hahnemuhle Fine Art Peart and Crane Museo Photo Silver rag.

One possible way is do a POP( pop out print) which is contact print exposed on special paper.

Best Regards,

Big Fish

[Howard Berg]

I have a related question on glass plate negatives. I inherited from my great grandfather a group of 5x7 glass plate negatives he made in Miami, in 1906, when there were only 300 people there. Several are historic, including scenes of the town and photos of a the boat "The Spray", Joshua Slocum's boat used for the first solo trip around the world that my great grandfather repaired for him. I have scanned these after carefully cleaning the glass side, but the main dirt left now is fungal growth in a few areas on the emulsion side. The negatives are archival-stored now.

The question: how can I safely clean (remove) the fungus? The emulsion is in relatively good shape.

Thanks for any help you can provide on this.

Howard

[Gordon Moat]

On your Epson flatbed, I am not so sure. What I do on my old Heidelberg is place the flat glass plate onto the scanner glass with some Prazio oil between the plate and scanner glass. That way I get very clean scans.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[Big Fish]

Hi Gordon...

As referenced before I have hesitant to place glass on glass. How do you keep oil off emulsion side? How about KAMI fluid? Does it really make a difference using an wet or oil process? What are the trade off benefits?

Thanks,

Big Fish