Without eBay, I probably wouldn't be using large format equipment today. It allows me to try different gear and resell it with little or no loss if I don't like it.
The For Sale/Wanted section here is of great use too, but the offer and the number of potential buyers on eBay is simply the largest there is.
Patrik, you didn't whine, you reported real problems. And you didn't rant about evil monopolies or how you were going to punish/cheat them. So I don't think you're a whiner. Try again.Originally Posted by Patrik Roseen
Without eBay you'd have a hard time finding crooks in the US to take your money. But I'm not sure whether that's eBay's fault. FWIW, the one time I was stung by an eBay seller the person was in the UK and he got me for around $US 60. I complained to eBay and PayPal, who eventually allowed that if I sent the lens back at my cost they'd give me $25. Not worth it. But $60 is a lot less than Jim's $1k.
I hope that Jim takes his problem to the police. The crook who robbed him is in the US and the amount stolen would justify setting the police on the crook and, perhaps, suit.
But there are problems with suits over relatively small sums. The likely venue is small claims court. Small claims courts are informal, inexpensive to use, don't require lawyers' services ($$$). But if Jim were to sue and win in small claims in Tonopah, he'd have a hard time enforcing the judgment in Tennessee. Winning is one thing, collecting is another.
Cheers,
Dan
It appears some folks equate expressing one's view and opinion as whining, when in fact it's far from the truth. No has said we should eliminate or whatever else about Ebay we would like to see. There appears to have been a leap of logic without the connecting dots.
While none of my LF equpment came from Ebay (all from here or KEH), much of my old Minolta manual focus equipment was bought on Ebay, just not with PayPal. We all make choices in our life and work, and others shouldn't infer our opinion is more than just that, which we're all entitled to express, and definitely not whining.
--Scott--
Scott M. Knowles, MS-Geography
scott@wsrphoto.com
"All things merge into one, and a river flows through it."
- Norman MacLean
Dan,
Ditto.
I think that one of the things about Ebay that is great is that it is an open horizon. Anybody can sell and buy anything from anybody anywhere. Of course, that implies some risk so caveat emptor and quit whining. We have so few free, unregulated domains of life today and all of the whiners demanding "protection." Well, build your own Safebay and buy more expensive products that have been tested by a government certified tester, pay for insurance on the purchase, have the sale reported for state income tax in all instances, blah blah blah. For me, sometimes I just want to buy something without the world at large "protecting me."
Perhaps we could also have an Ebay auction monitor and if anyone make a really good purchase, the monitor could apply a "fairness tax" to the transaction because we don't want buyers to benefit "unfairly."
I have learned alot about photography and the history of photography just by searching Ebay and monitoring auctions and searching.
Competition is great too. Maybe the whiners could do a better job than Ebay for less and guarantee good results in all instances with zero risk. If so, they would have a lot of customers and make a lot of money. If it were so easy, someone would have done it. On the other hand, Ebay, like any rational entity, tries to corner the market and stifle competition. So more freedom in the market is a better protection than trying to regulate Ebay.
Amen to that! What little selling I do is because I have the opportunity to try something...and if I find something better, I can turn it around to somebody else to try. I commented in one of the other Evil Threads that if you don't like the way eBay sets their rules, then don't use them. Stop complaining and stop using them. Now if you're going to be TOTALLY idealistic about not using them, then you need to stop buying over eBay as well as selling, because by buying, you're also providing the customer base the arrogant and self-centered management require in order to keep their sellers fed.
I still use 'em. And even though some of their final sale fees have gone through the roof, it is still a place to turn something around that I simply have no more use for. I suppose that someone trying to make a living on eBay would have less sympathy. Still, even those people have alternatives. There's always getting a day job, like most of us find ourselves doing.
Look at it rationally: say on average one in a hundred transactions goes wrong. In the past you could do 100 transactions in a lifetime, nowdays you can do it in 1-2 years depending on what you buy and sell. So the probability of a bad experience is probably the same in terms of numbers (people have not changed, and bad deals are a people problem, not technology) but if you do more trades, you are more likely to have a bad apple in between. You need to factor that into your behaviour. PayPal and eBay do, because their prime interest is to protect shareholder value, not their customers with bad experience which probably account for .001% of their transaction volume. It's called risk management. Sad, but true.
I agree with Dan that PayPal makes it much easier for individuals to do business like this than we could before the internet.
There are more fees and credit checks associated with having a merchant account to accept credit cards than an individual selling a few items privately could ever justify, if they could even open an account for small volume sales without a business license and tax ID. If you can accept credit cards, you have a much larger market for obvious reasons, and can sell at auction for a higher price. If the difference in price is greater than the PayPal fee, then it's worth it to pay the fee to accept credit cards through PayPal.
Clearance times for personal checks are regulated by state banking law, but it's usually around 10 days. I take checks and pay by check when I have to, but I'd rather be able to move things along than wait for checks to clear, whether I'm buying or selling. Merchants can use a service to guarantee checks on the spot, where the merchant calls the service, and the service verifies that the account balance is sufficient and--for a fee--guarantees the check, because most retail customers won't be troubled to pay by check and wait until it clears to pick up the merchandise. They pay the fee, because the service allows them to close sales they wouldn't otherwise make.
I have probably done more than 200 transactions on ebay and have never once been stung, though someone did hijack my password once and that cost me some time to resolve the problem. Still, my preference in selling is to just offer photographic equipment in the For Sale section of one of the photo forums at a slightly lower price than I would anticipate getting on ebay.
Although the transaction fee is high I think Paypal works well, especially for selling abroad.
The key to a good selling experience, either on ebay or through a forum, is a thorough description of the item, avoiding to the extent possible saying things that are clearly not fact. For example, don't say perfect glass if there are any polish marks on the lens, or Mint condition if the body of a camera has any scratches.
In buying the key to a good transaction is to read the description carefully, and if you have questions, contact the seller for more information. Also, ship the item as soon as possible after receiving payment, or explain why.
I agree with an earlier post in that the experiences of buying through the add pages in Modern Photography or through Shutterbug makes one really appreciate how easy and smooth it is today to sell and buy photo equipment.
Sandy King
Good morning,
I do have to agree with most of this thread, no one wants to go back to Shutterbug, Modern Photography, the Little Nickel or Pennysaver for buying or selling. Sorry but I have found Craig's list to be a freak show populated with local hookers and their boyfriends, too many crimes involved.
ebay is a business and a private club, if you don't like the rules quit. paypal is a business and their fees are getting ridiculous but they are still cheaper than any alternative. Making paypal a monopoly has pissed off too many people for a joke so there must be a legitimate reason to do so, it's called the internet sales tax, coming very soon. As far as the cash-and-carry gray market goes, welcome to the 21st century, the tax-man wants his cut.
Protecting yourself for eBay and paypal is rather easy, just open a new checking account and pre-paid credit card at a different bank exclusively for eBay.
"There's a lot to be said for buying from an established brick and mortar dealer, (such as Midwest with a telephone number) who takes credit cards directly."
Yep. Just as on-line sales have destroyed Main St., the internet sales tax will drive them back home, just in time for the 'boomers' to retire and open retirement businesses.
The only 'bitch' I have with eBay is sellers shipping with 'signature' conformation. Like most people I work for a living and I'm never home during business hours and they will not leave the packages with the property manager. I just love having my time wasted, really I do, it's my favorite thing on the planet.
Paypal requires signature confirmation on items over $250 otherwise they won't offer their legendary 'protection'.
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