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Thread: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

  1. #1

    How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    With the advent of new medium format cameras for digital backs such as the Linhof Techno, Sinar Artech, and the latest Arca Swiss (can't remember it's name), how do you see such equipment in your future? I would like to hear from Kirk Gittings with his experience in architectural photography and anyone else who works in this area. Kirk mentioned in another post that he uses his Canon 5D for a large percentage of his work and he said that 4x5 was overkill for much of the work which is only reproduced in magazine pages. My question, is a MF digital back overkill also?

    At the price of these cameras and backs, $35,000 plus in most cases, who can justify the cost? Especially if you are trying to make a living? For large prints the quality may be justified, but that's also what large format film is for. I guess I'm curious as to who is doing enough big stuff to justify the cost. Of course, if you are indepedently wealthy and want one of these beautiful machines, that's great. But is there a practical side to this?

    Kirk, I would like to hear your input and wisdom on this please. Feel free to move this thread where necessary. I thought it should be in the cameras area.

  2. #2

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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    I think that in the US, the market for those sorts of higher end cameras is more for building product's advertising and promotion -- than your average penny-pinching architectural firm. Take a look at the ads for Armstrong vinyl flooring and Marvin windows, those are the sorts of ads that require either large format film or high-end medium format, wide angle photography.

    They are expensive but so is the wide angle Hasselblad H3 lens.

  3. #3
    Downstairs
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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    Question time.
    Does an architectural photographer with a digital back sort out perspective in camera or in post-production?
    Does an architectural photographer with a view camera tweak perspective in post-production?
    Does an architectural photographer stitch?
    What gets lost in the wash?
    Last edited by cjbroadbent; 8-Nov-2008 at 02:00. Reason: typo

  4. #4

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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    i just can't buy it... too expensive and not enought work at the moment... quite a difficult domain at the moment over here (france)!
    But i can also said that there's a big difference between a leaf aptus mounted on a Arca RM3D using digital lens, and a canon DSIII using TSE... so if i had the money, i will buy a back on the spot !
    I still using 4x5 and 6x8 along with a Canon 5D... i will probably buy the 5DII but what i miss the most is a 24 TSE Mark II...

  5. #5

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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?


  6. #6

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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    If you are shooting with digital back, you can sort out perspective in Photoshop. It is easy.

  7. #7

    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    I am an architectural photographer and switched from 4x5" to a digital back last year. What pushed me to change was the fact that the last pro lab on the island where I live closed down, and I suddenly found myself shipping my transparencies over to mainland Spain for development, so between shooting an assignment and sitting down to select the shots for scanning 8-10 days would elapse. The costs went up as well with courier charges. So, summarizing my experience:

    Cost. The upfront costs are not as high as they first seem. I have bought everything second (or third) hand. I use an Alpa XY with 24mm, 35mm and 47mm lenses (that's approx. 17, 25 and 35mm in 35mm terms) and a Leaf Aptus 22 back. If you buy refurbished backs, or even if you contact dealers and negotiate directly, you'll find prices are substantially lower than advertised. I went for the Aptus 22 (22 Megas) because it came with the camera + 35mm lens. The resolution is far from comparable with 4x5", but it is good enough for 90% of my work.

    Does an architectural photographer with a digital back sort out perspective in camera or in post-production?
    Yes, I sort out perspective in camera, just like with my former Ebony SW.

    Does an architectural photographer with a view camera tweak perspective in post-production?
    If I had been careless while taking a 4x5" shot I'd tweak the scanned file much as I might tweak a digital file now.

    Does an architectural photographer stitch?
    Yes. There is a stitching adapter for the Alpa XY which allows you to stitch in camera, you simply shift the digital back horizontally and/or vertically -the lens remains static. This serves two functions: to increase resolution substantially, and to increase your field of view.

    Working with a digital back in the field is not any faster than shooting 4x5", and if accidents happen the consequences might be much more onerous than with film, but it does offer some advantages, among them the possibility to experiment freely while shooting an assignment, and go for angles or perspectives I would not have considered before, just because I can check results there and then, and when the light is tricky to go home knowing you got the shot because you could correct any mistakes on the go.

    What gets lost in the wash?
    In my case, 4x5". The adoption of a digital back has simplified my professional photography, but it has equally pushed me towards larger film formats. I find digital -in my circumstances- has made my life a bit easier, but though I am not dogmatic about it, I still prefer film. So I shoot 11x14 portraits and will soon be investing in a 8x10 camera for those (extremely) rare instances where an architect will be willing to pay for such a project.

  8. #8
    Downstairs
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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    Miguel,
    Thanks for the carefully thought-out answer answer to my perspective question. Presumably, shooting towards the edge of the lens circle with a rising front degrades definition a bit. Is this less degrading than when you add (or subtract) pixels with photoshop perspective?
    And while we are at it, do you squeeze (subtract) or stretch (add) or do a bit of both?

  9. #9

    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    I think one of the dangers of going this route is that every image starts getting that wide angle look to it, which might make it tough to separate your images from the rest of the herd. Unfortunately I think the chip physical size is still quite small, which means a small ground glass, or using a more medium format 645 style viewfinder. The approach is somewhat different than using a 4x5, since I find the larger ground glass far easier to use.

    Due to the prices and rate of change of the current line of MFDBs, I think renting makes a better option than buying outright. If I had continual heavy use for an MFDB, then I might consider leasing. I don't see where purchase makes sense, unless you have unusual tax deduction methods, or you cannot lease for some reason.

    I don't do much architectural imaging, so the newest cameras are not a heavy influence on the way I would produce images in the near future. I am interested in trying some of these, and open to the concepts. Currently for the bulk of work I do, these newer cameras do not fill any immediate need, which is one reason I am working on my own camera design.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat Photography

  10. #10
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: How are the new line of architectural cameras going to influence your work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Broadbent View Post
    Question time.
    Does an architectural photographer with a digital back sort out perspective in camera or in post-production?
    Does an architectural photographer with a view camera tweak perspective in post-production?
    Does an architectural photographer stitch?
    What gets lost in the wash?
    Christopher, I don't the Dbacks on a view camera or MF camera. I only use a DSLR or film and a VC so I can't answer many of your questions. I simply cannot justify the expense of a back or MF system on a 2-3 year cost basis. It makes no sense when the DSLR works fine and pays for itself in a month.

    Gary, I use a 5D DSLR with 24,35 (olympus),45 and 90 shift lenses. I use it just like a view camera......always on a tripod, with levels, mirror locked up, cable release, low ISO, very deliberate, slow (but much quicker than using a 4x5) and ever mindful of the limitations of the equipment. I routinely do stitching to build file size or for panoramas (both interiors and exteriors) using just the shift capabilities of the lenses. At 58 with 30+ years in the business, me and my assistant are loving the change, the lighter equipment, the greater flexibility etc. My clients have never been happier or higher profile and my fees have never been higher. I have no reason to change at the moment, just upgrade this fall to a 5DII.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

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