epson 3800 printer vs. 2280 w/advanced b&w

[windpointphoto]

I have the 3800 and would expect there to be almost no difference in using the 2880 other than the carriage size. If you sell any prints at all, the 3800 will pay for itself since the demand for large prints is *much* higher. If it's for personal use, I still recommend the 3800 for the sheer joy of seeing a bigger print. I consider the 3800 very straightforward to use and rarely have to do any tweaking to get fantastic prints. If you have a good image file, getting a top quality print takes very little work.

I have the 3800 and I second BarryS's thoughts. It's big and heavy but easy to use. I have no negative issues with mine and I've had it for almost two years.

[Lenny Eiger]

I'm slowly entering the digital world, predominantly black and white and at this stage I can do with the smaller 13"x 19" the 2880 offers but for $400 more I would consider the 3800 given the positive reviews and what seems like the pervasive use amongst this forums users. The 2880 is a newer model with the ADVANCED BLACK AND WHITE feature that has gotten very good reviews and seems fairly easy to use. Not being very computer savvy - but learning- I am leaning toward the 2880. I was hoping someone might be able to offer some insight on the difference and how difficult the 3800 is in pulling out of it the best prints it can offer. ( I'm aware of the 4880 but that is out of my price range) Thanks very much,
Zack

If you want great black and white, it is better to use black and white inks. Try inkjetmall.com....

Lenny

[Peter De Smidt]

The K3 printers and later do very good BW prints with the OEM inks. Personally, I tend to print bw as color through a special custom profile. This allows me to add any tone that I'd like to the bw image. Lot's of people get good results with a ABW mode, though, and you can make a soft-proofing icc with QTR's (Quad Toned Rip) create-icc application. (That said, while soft-proofing can be helpful, there's nothing as good as making test prints. It's a good idea to set up a small custom paper size to make 1/4 page test prints.) I also make BW prints using Image Print RIP. They have excellent BW profiles for a number of papers. Finally, if printing BW on matte papers, both Cone's bw inks and MIS's Paul Roark inksets can do a very good job. Each of these produces prints that look slightly different, and it depends on the image as to which I prefer. So I don't agree with Lenny that BW inksets are "better."

[Lenny Eiger]

So I don't agree with Lenny that BW inksets are "better."

I have two printers. One is a 12 color Roland dVinci system, which has the widest gamut and smoothest printing of any printer on the market. The other is the same 54 inch wide machine filled with blacck and white inks. I start with Cone's Piezotones and remix them to my own specifications, adding a couple of extra highlight channels, some other modifications. I've taken years researching this to get the look and feel that I want.

Along the way I've taken a look at other systems, like ImagePrint and the Paul Roark system. I found both to be quite lacking, and that's being kind. I had to simply throw out the ImagePrint. I use an advanced version of StudioPrint built to manage the 12 channels of the Roland individually. It is a very extensive RIP, both to understand and to use. I also have some appreciation for some of the features of QTR which are advanced in certain areas.

I have often made prints with both printers. My b&w Roland is new this year. With the 12 channels, I can fill 6 with a cold tone and 6 with a warm tone. I can make any tone I want- within the Piezotone cold to warm range. Previously, I only had a warm tone capacity. Photographers who wanted to print a neutral or colder tone went on the color machine, either with a 4 dilution cold set, or for neutral, the full 12 color set. I had many occasions to make a print for someone who asked, gee that print is really nice, but can you make me a neutral one.

The color print, even with a huge gamut, with software that easily made a neutral print, with no color cast, could not compare to the sensitivity of the b&w print. I'm sorry Peter, my results don't match yours at all. I'm using some great b&w inks, but I have to say that neither Imageprint, nor Roark, nor ABW is even close.

That said, if the print one is looking for has a little less detail, maybe has a lot of contrast, it may not matter. But if you want a print that is truly exquisite, I think one would be better off with b&w inks. If you are ever out this way, by all means visit and I will show you some examples...

I am also in agreement with Tyler. I don't mean to suggest that I am paraphrasing him, but I find that a lot of people answer a question like "what kind of scanner should I get" without finding out what they want to use it for.

Lenny

[Peter De Smidt]

I have prints made both by Tyler, (these were tests prints of a new process), and by Paul Roark made with his eboni 6 inkset. I also made prints of the latter file using Cone K7 inkset on PR, and using Image Print with a 4880. All of these systems are capable of producing very fine, but slightly different, results.

In this case we have someone starting to print digitally. Recommending that he learn how to get the most out of the OEM solution would not only be the most cost effective solution, but it would also give a good baseline for him to compare alternate options later, and he could still print color, if he'd like. It's certainly an option worth considering.

But it's obvious that Lenny just wants to brag about his equipment and condescend to everyone else.

[Lenny Eiger]

.

Peter,

I happen to disagree with the OEM solutions. If one wants b&w, then they want b&w. We can agree to disagree.

OTOH, this is just one more time that you have been more than rude. I'm just trying to make my case for the point I am trying to make. And on occasion someone wants to know who is talking and why in the world they should listen to me. So I end up talking about the experience I have had and how I arrived at my conclusions. There are a number of folks who have had similar experience, I'm not the only one, but I'm not a beginner....

Why don't you just block my posts in the future. Then you don't have to listen to it.

Lenny

[zack kl]

Well, First I would like to sincerely thank everyone for their views on what has expanded -as these threads seem naturally to do - beyond my original plea for information, all of the replies have honestly been useful and appreciated. I've found that the 3800 has the "advanced Black and White Mode" and hadn't thought to factor in the size and price of inks and so when I am ready the 3800 it will be.
Altho I will be doing mostly black and white, I will also be doing some color at least at the start (I was given 50 sheets of Provia 4x5 and altho I never thought much of color, after shooting a test shot I was surprised what a pleasure it was to look at the transparency). I have been reading about the various total black and white inksets and assorted software but consider it to be beyond my beginner status. Eventually after I am comfortable with the Epson software I would like to compare different ink sets but at this point I simply don't have the experience under my belt to know what I would be looking at. As I have yet to digitially print anything I am happy with and know that I am still in the early stages of the learning curve for scanning, I read and read just to slowly get an understanding of the lay of the land that lies ahead. For someone like me this forum it invaluable and so thanks to all. Zack