Signing Baryta Prints

[Arne Croell]

Baryta papers of the past contained barium hydroxide. New Baryta inkjet papers contain barium sulphate. It seems to me that the paper companies, or perhaps the marketing, is changing the meaning of Baryta print. I think this is confusing for the art market. A traditional chemically printed B/W Baryta print is not the same as an inkjet Baryta, yet how would the end purchaser know any difference?

I am not trying to pick a fight with this, but it certainly looks confusing. Barium sulphate is a whitening agent. Barium reacts with air, and historically the oxide has been called baryta, but not the sulfide. Barium hydroxide is actually a corrosive material. Someone want to explain all this?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

To my knowledege the term "baryta" in paper production (photographic or otherwise) has always meant barium sulfate, or barite as a mineral. Barium salts are quite poisonous, including the hydroxide. The sulfate is the exception because it is practically insoluble in water (for that reason it can be given orally as a contrast agent for x-rays of the stomach).

[Kerik Kouklis]

Kirk are you writing on the white border or within the image itself? I use the Gold Fiber Silk and have had no problems signing/numbering in the borders with the ultra fine point Sharpies.

[Kirk Gittings]

Kerik, in the white boarder only. It may be writing style too. My signature is kind of quick and sweeping and maybe that is why some pens and fine points are problematic. I noticed when testing that if I slowed down and wrote more deliberately almost any pen would work, but unfortunately my signature is my signature.

With Sharpies I noticed on some silver prints that I signed on the white border maybe 20 years ago, the signature has faded considerably. Has anyone else noticed that?

[Gordon Moat]

As per baryta inkjet papers, from an Ilford press release quoted on LL.

Thanks Kirk. So if I understand that correctly, Ilford uses the same coating process up until the final pass. On chemical B/W paper, the last pass is silver based, while on inkjet papers the last pass is the coating receptor surface for the inks.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[Bruce Watson]

With Sharpies I noticed on some silver prints that I signed on the white border maybe 20 years ago, the signature has faded considerably. Has anyone else noticed that?

Oh yes. I've seen notes written on post-its less than a year old that are hard to read because of the fading. I've seen signatures on archival paper do the same -- you can only read it because of the crease left behind from the pressure of the original writing.

This is why I try to do this kind of work with a pigmented paint or ink, hopefully one that is acid free. But my favorite DecoColor pigment paint pens are too big for what you are trying to do.

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks Kirk. So if I understand that correctly, Ilford uses the same coating process up until the final pass. On chemical B/W paper, the last pass is silver based, while on inkjet papers the last pass is the coating receptor surface for the inks.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

Yes that is how I understand it too, though there is precious little real info on this matter out there.
I found this out there too, suggesting that the chemical component is the same for silver and ink papers:

Hahnemühle Baryta 325gsm (pdf data sheet)

100% Alpha-Cellulose, ultra-smooth, high gloss

FineArt Baryta 325 is a brilliant white, high gloss paper that sets the benchmark for high color depth, large color gamut and image definition. This paper gives the “wow” factor particularly to black and white prints with an extremely high dmax and the finest grey tones. It is a unique experience to touch and feel the ultra smooth surface. Using barium sulphate in the premium inkjet coating ensures the typical gloss that makes this paper a genuine replacement for traditional Baryth papers from analogue laboratories.

[Gordon Moat]

Depending upon what percentage of the barium coating they use in the papers, will determine the gloss and smoothness of the paper. The paper would normally have Calcium Carbonate, Titanium Dioxide, or Flourescance to raise the brightness value, and then the coating acts to fill in the peaks and valleys of the paper texture. Calcium carbonate is expensive to use, and usually mixed with the pulp, so it is rare to find much of this. The other two brighteners corrode more swiftly.

Coatings do protect one surface of the paper, though barium based coatings do corrode over time. This would mostly be evidenced by observing a slight yellowing over time, a lowering of gloss differential, or quite simply a slightly duller looking image. I don't see these as detrimental, though given the previous fixation on the archival nature of inkjet prints, perhaps other terminology would be more prudent. You will never end up with a blank piece of paper, but the print will definitely change slightly over time; and I think that should simply be accepted.

Given the current change in marketing, I think I should no longer call my (few) old Baryta prints Baryta Prints. I think very soon people will confuse those with inkjet prints, despite that most photographers could likely tell the difference. So should I start calling the older process Bromide Prints or something else?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[Arne Croell]

Given the current change in marketing, I think I should no longer call my (few) old Baryta prints Baryta Prints. I think very soon people will confuse those with inkjet prints, despite that most photographers could likely tell the difference. So should I start calling the older process Bromide Prints or something else?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

Gordon, the most common designation I've seen in museums and galleries is "silver gelatin print".

[Michael Graves]

Thanks Domenico. I just went out and bought a couple, .20 and .50. The .20 skated and skipped whereas the .50 worked just fine. Though I prefer a very fine tip it appears in general that I have been trying to use too fine a point on this paper and possibly other baryta papers too. After further testing the .50 seems to work well on everything. My Rapidograph was .30 and perhaps is too fine too. The Sharpie........well it is just a sharpie.

Can't sign a print with a Sharpie. Those are only good for footballs.