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Thread: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

  1. #41

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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    The GSA doesn't know "come here" from "sickum"...anybody that would pay four fortunes for a damned ballpein hammer is highly suspect in my opinion.

  2. #42

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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    I would not consider buying the quadropod over a tripod for several reasons.

    1) 4 legs take more time to extend and lock than 3.
    2) 3 legs are far easier to provide a stable base on an uneven surface than 4 legs
    3) 4 legs make the diameter of the 'pod wider
    4) 4 legs make it more likely that a leg might be in the way or get kicked while working
    5) a fourth leg is an additional surface that can catch the wind and vibrate
    6) 3 legs don't wobble, 4 legs can wobble unless the lengths are set very accurately to prevent that, and that takes extra time

    I appreciate the effort to produce a new product and an attempt to improve existing technology, but I don't see how a fourth leg helps. Still I wish Novoflex and HP the best of luck with the product.

  3. #43

    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon - HP Marketing View Post
    Did you know that copy stands per GSA were listed under tripods?
    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon - HP Marketing View Post
    Properly these are all camera supports. The terminology depends on the accepted use in most areas of photography. Every member of the press that has seen the Quadropod at a show has remarked that it is a "four leg tripod". It is the use, not the design that makes it referred to as a tripod.
    I would think it would be your job to correct the members of the press that were incorrectly calling the quadropod a tripod - not propagating the incorrect use of the term as you did in the title of this thread. If this is indeed a new category of product, wouldn't calling it by the correct name help differentiate it from the thousands of tripods (you know, the kind with three legs) already on the market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon - HP Marketing View Post
    And the Quadropod V can be set up with 3 legs at 120° apart or 4 legs at 90° apart. So what would you call that? Since it is both.
    I'd call it confusing. For the life of me, I can't figure out the intended market for this product. It sure seems like a solution in search of a problem. As others have pointed out, setting up a support with 4 legs will be easiest and fastest on a perfectly level floor - as in a studio. Yet, one of the supposed benefits of 4 legs over three is less chance for tipping. Studios aren't exactly windy environments. So, I don't see the benefit of the 4th leg in the studio setting where studio stands with heavily weighted bases and heavy tripods on dollies are commonly used.

    As others have correctly pointed out, setting up a 4 legged support on uneven ground (i.e. outdoors) can be problematic. At the very least, it will take more time than setting up a tripod - which by its very nature will not wobble on uneven ground. As a nature photographer, I am always concerned about the weight I have to carry on my back. A 4 legged support will be 33% (on average) heavier than a comparable 3 legged tripod. Why would I want to carry around something that is both heavier and takes longer to set up?

    Photographers have been using tripods for over 150 years without the need for a 4th leg. What has changed in within the last year that suddenly makes a 4th leg desirable? Surveyors continue to use tripods to support their sensitive equipment. If there was a benefit to a 4th leg, I think they would have switched en masse to quadrapods decades ago - yet they haven't.

    Kerry

  4. #44

    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Camper View Post
    It is not easy making a good tripod, first prove to me you can make a good 3 leg tripod.
    You have had Photokina, Photo East, MacWorld, PhotoWest, The Precision Camera Show, That Samy's Show, NANPA shows to have seen it. One is currently in N. CA being shown to dealers by our rep and one is now in Texas being shown to dealers down there. They have been demoed at B&H demo days as well as Adorama's and W.B. Hunts Show and the Camera Wholesalers show.

    Any of these venues would have let you see and handle a Quadropod. They are just now being shipped to the first dealers that ordered them.

    They are not being hidden from you. Simply go to a show and play with one. Or talk to your local camera store about having one sent in for you to play with.,

  5. #45

    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    No I did not miss your point. You missed mine. Go get your hands on one, then comment.

    As for Novoflex. They have been making professional quality camera equipment for decades under their name and also as parts for Rollei, Leica, Hasselblad and Arriflex, among others. They proved their manufacturing quality decades ago. In fact, if you shoot with Hasselblad, Rollei, Leica or Arrii there is an excellent chance that you are shooting with a Novoflex manufactured accessory.

  6. #46

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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    This is silly!

  7. #47

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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    Hmmm. I can think of a few applications where a fourth leg would come in handy. :>

    No seriously, I've up tight against a bluff or cliff wall on a ledge, setting up and had to kick one leg off the wall due to room limitations. Would have nice to have an extra leg to stabilize it better. Or setting up on beach logs, boulder fields, etc, anywhere where the elevation changes dramatically and you can't collapse the third leg enough and you're restricted how you can rotate the legs. I'm not sure a fourth leg is an overall perfect solution, but I've actually been in a situation or two where I wished I had an extra point to distribute load. Could be my tin hat is getting warm, who knows.

    Anyway. Bob- I admire your patience.

  8. #48
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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    Is all this passion about an unseen product normal? If a product is boneheaded, nobody will buy it, and they'll stop making it. Problem solved. People can laugh and point when it happens. If it seems boneheaded but turns out not to be, there are probably people who won't use it just because they refuse to believe it could not be anything but boneheaded. Maybe they punish only themselves. And there may be others who thought it was boneheaded but end up being persuaded, and then their passionate words might be recalled with some regret. If it meets requirements a given person does not have, then they shouldn't buy it, but that doesn't mean the next person won't have those requirements. That's what markets are about. We are free to choose.

    I personally don't see a need in my own work for this product, though I can think of a time it two it might have helped avert a problem. And truth to tell much of the products Bob represents are out of my price range, at least when new. But there sure seems to be a lot of designing going on without thinking through the requirements, and a lot of commentary on a design without seeing it in person. Maybe there's some fundamental point people are missing.

    As to Novoflex being a newcomer to the camera-support biz, so what? That doesn't make any of the above untrue. The product will succeed or fail on its own merits. Most of the products I design as an engineer have never been built before and will never be built just like that again. But they all fulfill their design requirements.

    Rick "reserving judgment until seeing an example" Denney

  9. #49
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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Camper View Post
    This Novaflex I believe is around $1000, I think people want to get opinions when they pay that much.
    No doubt. But as I review the opinions of users on any given product, first-hand opinions are the ones that get my attention.

    Rick "not in the market for a $1000 camera support of any configuration" Denney

  10. #50
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    Re: New Novoflex 4 leg tripod system at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Camper View Post
    Novaflex is a no-body in the tripod business, the product and concept isn't proven, years of heavy testing by pros is non-existant. So if your spending a lot for a tripod, which would you buy....Gitzo or Novaflex, 3 or 4 legs? You're forgetting logic, common sense, and voice of experience by others in here (which you imply are worthless compared to my mothers "first hand" opinion after seeing the product in person). I don't need to see a Gitzo to decide I am getting a top quality product.
    I do need to see a Gitzo. The last one I inspected rang like a bell when I thumped it. The Bogen legs I bought did not. There was a difference in the damping of the fitments, apparently. I have avoided Gitzo aluminum tripod legs because of that inspection I made many years ago.

    I suppose there are two ways of evaluating something: One by experience and another by inspection. As an engineer, I'm compelled to the latter, for the simple reason that most constructed projects are built in single examples and experience may not apply. I can inspect a camera support and know if it's strong enough. I can set it up and thump it with my thumbnail and know if it rings. I can set it up, break it down, set it up, and break it down about three times, and know if it will be a pain in the posterior to use in the field. I can inspect the manner in which the hinges and locks are made and make a pretty reasonable assessment of their durability. I can inspect the design and know whether it will provide flexibility in use. For example, I know that the adjustable center braces on my Bogen 3036 legs will make it easier to plumb the center column than the fixed-length center braces on my 3040 legs, and I know that having the center braces will add a truss to the design making it more stiff than not having them, for the same overall weight, especially when the legs are splayed out wide and therefore loaded in bending rather than compression.

    The only thing I cannot assess by inspection is the quality of the material itself. That matters when considering a no-name brand from you-know-where, but I figure Novoflex knows better than to use pot-metal for the top casting. But that doesn't require any faith to believe.

    Experience does count. So, forgive me for being forward, but why don't you tell us the experience you have had with Novoflex camera supports? There had to have been a first use of Gitzo, or Ries, or Berlebach, or Manfrotto/Bogen, or any of the quality makers. Were those first users idiots for trying something not tested by the experience of others? Maybe. But perhaps they were able to assess the quality of the item by inspection.

    Once I am actually able to inspect the Novoflex, I might be right there with you and I reserve that possibility. Maybe my inspection will indeed reveal that it's just a silly product stem to stern. I'm just not going to insist that it's obvious based on a few words in an Internet forum, or on the perceived inexperience of Novoflex in the camera support field. And, at $1000, it's indeed expensive and it will have to perform amazingly in those inspections to attract much market--a market that will not likely include me no matter what just because of the price.

    Rick "thinking faith shouldn't be necessary to evaluate this tripod" Denney

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