Difference between Eastman View Camera No. 1 and D2

[dng88]

Hi, I have a chance to get hold a Kodak 8x10 camera and like to ask the forum for advice.

I looked into the plate in the JPG provided and it said something about being an "Eastman View No. 1 Improved Model of Century View and Empire State No. 1 ...." . I read in ebay a lot of Kodak D2 model. Is there major difference? Would the basic thing like front tilt, back tilt, front swing, back swing, front rise and fall, front shift etc. capability be there, given that it is of 190x to 192x camera. Is it a good idea to get this and shall I go to get a Kodak D2 instead for beginning my 8x10 experience.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[eddie]

hello,

here is a link to some very helpful info and photos.

i am no expert but i will tell you what i have observed in these two cameras. i have had kodak 2 Ds in 5x7 and 8x10. and i have an empire state in 11x14. the metal hardware seems to be different in my examples. nickle vs gold plated etc. that could just be due to when they were produced. the big main difference i noticed is that the 2D has one extra grove in the rail to allow a sliding block to be used. (here and here are two quick snaps of the sliding block. the 1st shows it on the base of the camera the second shows it from the bottom of the camera, slid back) a very very handy device. it allows you to keep the weight balanced very well on the tripod. the ES no 1 does not have this ability AFAIK. the 2D is way more popular so it is easy to get parts for.

when you are buying it is very important you hold out for an extension rail and sliding block, IMO. the rail being the top priority so you can use longer lenses or shoot at portrait distances.

[dng88]

Many thanks eddie.

In terms of movement, is there anything I need to check? In particular may I ask whether this kind of field camera has some restriction I shall be in mind e.g. no tilt, no swing no something. If the design is no good, I may just not get it tomorrow.

[Drew Bedo]

My 2-D has Rise/Fall on the front standard, but no other movements. The rear standard has axial Tilt and axial Swing but no shifts.

[Brian Ellis]

Well a D2 is a Nikon digital camera, it's a lot different than the Empire. : - )

Sorry, I couldn't resist that. I've owned a Kodak 2D, it's a very nice camera for the money. I second Eddie's suggestion that you hold out for one that has the sliding tripod block and the rear extension rail unless you're comfortable with an 8x10 camera that has a pretty short bellows extension (can't remember how far the bellows extends without the rear extension, my guess is that it's only about 20 inches, maybe someone else knows for sure). However, if you don't get the rear extension rail then I don't think you need the sliding tripod block. With the relatively short "normal" extension I think the camera is sufficiently stable without the block.

The main limitation of the 2D in terms of movements is that it has no front tilt or swing. However, it does have back tilt and swing and that can actually be better in many situations than using front tilt or swing because it allows you to get away with a lens that has a smaller image circle. The downside to using rear tilt or swing instead of front is that it can distort the shape of objects in the photograph. For many subjects, especially most landscapes, that isn't a real problem, nobody knows what the shape of that rock in the foreground really was anyhow. But for some things - e.g. product photography where you're photographing glasses, boxes, bottles, etc. - it can be important to maintain the object's actual shape and rear tilt or swing won't work well for that kind of thing (assuming, of course, that you need to use rear tilt or swing).

The 2D also doesn't have front or rear shift. I don't consider that to be a significant limitation. You can move the tripod and get the same effect as using shift (actually better because using shift takes you out of the "sweet spot" of the lens) unless you're so confined that you don't have room to move the tripod.

There's no question that you're a little more limited with a 2D than you are with a camera that has a full set of movements but for many, maybe most, types of general purpose photography that isn't a major limitation IMHO and difference in cost is substantial. Finally, if you get the 2D and really love it but miss the absence of front tilt you can have it added by Richard Ritter for about $250 (which is what I did).

[dng88]

Many thanks for all the answer. I will remember to use 2D not D2 next time ;-).

I have a tachihara 4x5 and some lack of movement in the front make it very difficult to use (the back movement is simpler harder for me somhow). I will think over today and see whether I just jump in first and then get another one when I know a bit more about the format. I was told everything is 3 times larger and harder.

Thanks all.

[dng88]

Finally got a 2D on a very basic price and got 4 box of 8x10 B&W film from China. No film holder or lens.

Hence, I am going to bid for some film holder and I assume the 8x10 plastic Fidelity Elite Cut Film Holders may fit.

For the lens, try to see how to fit my 3 existing 4x5 lens can cover. Out of these three, (i) boyer paris beryl f6.8 90, (ii) graflex optar f4.7 and 135 and (iii) apo-computar symmetrigon f6.3 210, I think the 210 may just cover 8x10 without any movement. I would try to get a board to adapt the Linhof Technika len board which my lens mounted. That will faciliate my testing of this format whilst continue use my Tachihara 4x5. Otherwise, I am not sure whether I have to get a new len (expensive as this experiment goes) plus the complication as I may have to get further lens board to fit any new lens to this new camera.

Just my current situation and plan and if you have found anything wrong with this plan of this Newbie, any advice is more than welcome.

[C. D. Keth]

I have my camera in front of me so I took a measurment for you guys. Without the extension bed, you get between 17 and 18 inches of bellows. With the extension, you get 30.

[davidjohnlotto]

Is there an extension rail fer the empire state # 2 wholeplate camera?

[Louis Pacilla]

yes there is.